Russian Dossier: Paid for by HRC and the DNC

Originally posted by jaden101
It's all your country has left. So I doubt it.

I've seen people who are traditionally Democrats and people who are traditionally Republicans agree with me, on multiple occasions, that the Dems and GOP are mostly garbage. I do see hope in changing the system and truly draining the swamp. The conversation and change starts there: getting both sides to agree that their respective parties are shit.

I've always said both sides are corrupt as shit. The way I see the election is both were corrupt but Trump was incompetent to boot and emotionally unstable as it gets.

New York Times reporter is being attacked over one tweet that angered Clinton defenders

LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!

Perhaps her defenders are in a bit of a panic over stories like this?

Obama Administration Granted Visa To Russian Nuclear Official In Bribery Scheme Linked to Clinton's State Department

Originally posted by Surtur
Perhaps her defenders are in a bit of a panic over stories like this?

Obama Administration Granted Visa To Russian Nuclear Official In Bribery Scheme Linked to Clinton's State Department

Of course they are in a panic. You can't have the moral high ground with the anti-Trump hate if you're just going to look like a HUGE hypocrite.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Of course they are in a panic. You can't have the moral high ground with the anti-Trump hate if you're just going to look like a HUGE hypocrite.

The funny thing is the DNC came out and was all "this wasn't decided by the new people in charge!". Which would mean they are probably saying Debbie Wasserman Schultz was involved.

The elephant in the room is getting harder to ignore. They truly do have something to scream at the sky over lol.

FBI offered to pay for work on Trump dossier.

Originally posted by socool8520
Nope because the argument is who sucks more instead of how to fix things

I just read some independent party beliefs and they seem pretty closed off and wild as well.

Also, isn't this what each side does to each other all the time? Dig up dirt. Is it only bad because they paid for it?

Originally posted by dadudemon

You have no idea and want someone to tell you about anyone outside of Ds and Rs, right?

Please be honest. Because you obviously just want to shit on anyone I present to play "gotcha." [/B]

Can you spot the difference?

Originally posted by dadudemon
1. Hell no.

2. When you start off with a condescending tone in a thread and make 3 posts in a row, you should definitely expect someone to be questioning your motives and not trust you as being honest.

Quote it where I did this to you.

See my point #2 for why I responded with a bit snark.

Cool we have established this is your go to style. You will no longer get a calm down type comment from me again.

"You have no idea and want someone to tell you about anyone outside of Ds and Rs, right?" You said that. You say things like that all the time. To everyone you debate with.

Originally posted by dadudemon
It bothers you a bit, actually. It's noticeable. You've spent quite a bit of time personally attacking me, at this point. So you're clearly bothered a bit by this.

I'm pretty confident I have never questioned nor attacked your intelligence ever. The article spamming wasn't even about you. lol

Originally posted by dadudemon
You clearly have. I think you were bored so you wanted to play gotcha for a bit. Similar to your "subjective" word game about UBI.

No, I was explaining to you that what you were doing (posting look what they did articles) is exactly why they can't see both parties suck equally. I even pointed out that wasn't your intent. I was calling out the reason why they won't stop bickering. You took it as a personal attack for some strange reason.

I stand by the civil thing. We obviously have different interpretations of what civility is, but I will not concede that just because I don't want money taken from me, I'm not civilized. If someone disagreeing with you is considered trolling, then I really don't know what to tell you dude.

Originally posted by dadudemon
According to research, they are not representing my interests unless I am very rich or a lobbyist for someone very rich (or a company that has lots of money). This is part of why the anti-corruption movement is making waves.

Fair enough. These were points that I do not remember you bringing up in your OP or any other post in this thread up until now.

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
Not condescending and directed at your arguments, not you

Pointless tangent attacking socool personally and talking down to him.

Can you spot the difference?

I'm glad somebody saw that I wasn't attacking him, but this is being carried forward from another discussion we had. I missed his last post though. I have nothing against anyone on these boards personally.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I've always said both sides are corrupt as shit. The way I see the election is both were corrupt but Trump was incompetent to boot and emotionally unstable as it gets.

I still can't believe you aren't a Trump supporter. I was sure of it!

Don't ask why. 🙂

Originally posted by socool8520

What party/group would you propose?

Something that reflects the complexities and naunces of the American people.

Instead, the news ignores pro life Democrats, or same sex marriage supporting, moderate gun regulating Republicans.. Not to mention outright ignoring third rails..

Basically, our politics are broken because our way of getting information is compromised, imo...

Originally posted by socool8520
"You have no idea and want someone to tell you about anyone outside of Ds and Rs, right?" You said that. You say things like that all the time. To everyone you debate with.

I asked you to provide a quote where I was questioning your intelligence because you said I questioned your intelligence. You did not provide that at all. You didn't even provide something remotely close to that. Did you really intend for that to be your point? Do you not see why it is ridiculous to say someone is questioning your intelligence because they are trying to clarify your question?

Originally posted by socool8520
I'm pretty confident I have never questioned nor attacked your intelligence ever. The article spamming wasn't even about you. lol

I think you're confused because your reply does not really match up with what you quoted/responded to.

Originally posted by socool8520
I was calling out the reason why they won't stop bickering. You took it as a personal attack for some strange reason.

This is clearly a strawman on your part. It's a rather absurd one, too. I most certainly did not take that as a personal attack. I did not mention "personal attack" in reference to what you are talking about, here, and in temporal context (because we talked about 'stuff' later). You're mixing up things. I do not think you're following along in this conversation at all. And, no, I am not questioning your intelligence: you being unable to properly follow along in a forum discussion that spans many hours, while jumbling up tags and threads, while also probably doing normal human things throughout your day, is understandable. It is unnatural and awkward to try and have a conversation on the internet. So do not try to twist my words, here, into me questioning your intelligence.

Originally posted by socool8520
...but I will not concede that just because I don't want money taken from me, I'm not civilized.

This is also a strawman. You did not even come close to representing my perspective. You don't need to reply to me with "so then tell me what your actual point is so I can represent it properly" because that would be dumb when you can just go back and read my words and quote them, verbatim, to represent my point.

If you would like to debate this point on what it means to be in a civil and social group among other humans in a nation-state, I would be more than happy to discuss this with you, further, on a phone call. I will PM you my phone #.

Originally posted by socool8520
If someone disagreeing with you is considered trolling, then I really don't know what to tell you dude.

Seriously, you use a strawman for most of your responses. Quite clearly, what I've pointed out is not that you disagree with me. Not once. But now you're trying to pretend that's what I'm doing. What's the matter, are you jealous of Robtard, Surtur, and co. so you want to try and bring someone down into a cesspool of shit, too? Are you bored? I seriously suspect you're bored.

To drive home this point that you're clearly using a strawman, do we even disagree on the point? Because I think we actually do agree on the foundation of the point. That point being that both parties are rife with corrupt practices and the system has to make a qualitative change to start better serving the people they represent.

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
Not condescending and directed at your arguments, not you

I disagree. The part where it goes south is the condescension in the next post which you artifully left off:

Originally posted by socool8520
Firstly, it seemed like you posting a "not just Trump, but Hillary too" type of situation. To my knowledge, that is the way the game is played.

Secondly, you say why can't we ditch the systems to which I say they are too busy playing they "one sucks more game". Basically a never ending spam of posts like the one this thread started with. Your intentions were different, but this is what both parties do.

What party/group would you propose?

And he used a strawman in his very first reply, regarding my question.

Originally posted by socool8520
Pointless tangent attacking socool personally and talking down to him.

Can you spot the difference?

It was neither pointless nor an attack. He was either not being an honest actor in the conversation or he truly wanted to know. If it as the first, ignored and moving on. If it was the second, I would have been more than happy to explain that. However, his second reply to the thread clearly indicated he was not an honest actor because he already shit on third parties with the following:

Originally posted by socool8520
I just read some independent party beliefs and they seem pretty closed off and wild as well.

So, no, he is not an honest actor and me wondering if he's trolling or if he really genuinely wants me to superficially educate him on American Third Parties is a legitimate concern on my part. It is perfectly okay to ask people for more information on the internet. It is actually a good thing. But he definitely did not seem genuine so I wanted him to clarify. And did he? Boy did he. 🙂

Let's draw your attention to his pretend "honest" reply to my question:

Originally posted by socool8520
Not at all. calm down. What I want is for you to explain what kind of party system or way of running the country that is better than our two party system. I honestly just want to know your opinion. Not bashing you at all.

Oh, yes, he's so honest in his intentions, right? Right? But wait...he just said he did some research and threw out the third parties, already. So is he really honest? Does he REALLY want to know my opinion?

So he just read some independent third party beliefs (he even called them "beliefs"😉 and now he's an expert, right? And he seems to want to throw it all away, right? Is that the statement of someone being honest? No, definitely not. Is that the statement of a closed-minded fool who thinks he just gleaned enough about 3rd parties to be able to dismiss them all? Yes, most definitely. But is he a close-minded fool? No, he's not. So what is really going on? He's probably just trolling.

Obviously, most people could pick up on this. But you have an agenda because I called out your trolling very early on. So of course you'll pop in to cheer-lead.

But I think you just wanted a lengthy reply. You can clearly see that he's not been an honest actor in this conversation from the beginning. Pretending I hurt his poor feelings when he started the condescension "flavor" to the conversation is plainly laughable.

Originally posted by cdtm
Something that reflects the complexities and naunces of the American people.

Instead, the news ignores pro life Democrats, or same sex marriage supporting, moderate gun regulating Republicans.. Not to mention outright ignoring third rails..

Basically, our politics are broken because our way of getting information is compromised, imo...

Oh, yeah, that's right. The vast majority of Republicans I know are about sensible gun control laws, for gay marriage, drug legalization, and some are in support of a universal healthcare solution.

The ones that oppose those thing are Christian Evangelical Republicans. Which are much different than the average Republican. If you let the vocal minority dictate policy and even "the voice of our opinion", you'll get a very distorted perspective.

I say let's remove tax exemption from churches.

Originally posted by dadudemon
I asked you to provide a quote where I was questioning your intelligence because you said I questioned your intelligence. You did not provide that at all. You didn't even provide something remotely close to that. Did you really intend for that to be your point? Do you not see why it is ridiculous to say someone is questioning your intelligence because they are trying to clarify your question?

I think you're confused because your reply does not really match up with what you quoted/responded to.

This is clearly a strawman on your part. It's a rather absurd one, too. I most certainly did not take that as a personal attack. I did not mention "personal attack" in reference to what you are talking about, here, and in temporal context (because we talked about 'stuff' later). You're mixing up things. I do not think you're following along in this conversation at all. And, no, I am not questioning your intelligence: you being unable to properly follow along in a forum discussion that spans many hours, while jumbling up tags and threads, while also probably doing normal human things throughout your day, is understandable. It is unnatural and awkward to try and have a conversation on the internet. So do not try to twist my words, here, into me questioning your intelligence.

This is also a strawman. You did not even come close to representing my perspective. You don't need to reply to me with "so then tell me what your actual point is so I can represent it properly" because that would be dumb when you can just go back and read my words and quote them, verbatim, to represent my point.

If you would like to debate this point on what it means to be in a civil and social group among other humans in a nation-state, I would be more than happy to discuss this with you, further, on a phone call. I will PM you my phone #.

Seriously, you use a strawman for most of your responses. Quite clearly, what I've pointed out is not that you disagree with me. Not once. But now you're trying to pretend that's what I'm doing. What's the matter, are you jealous of Robtard, Surtur, and co. so you want to try and bring someone down into a cesspool of shit, too? Are you bored? I seriously suspect you're bored.

To drive home this point that you're clearly using a strawman, do we even disagree on the point? Because I think we actually do agree on the foundation of the point. That point being that both parties are rife with corrupt practices and the system has to make a qualitative change to start better serving the people they represent.

Look dude, we leave it at you're clearly not going to see things from my perspective (as you think I'm trolling you for some odd reason) and leave it at that. It's obvious we see things quite differently and this back and forth will do nothing but derail the thread. Sound good?

Originally posted by cdtm
Something that reflects the complexities and naunces of the American people.

Instead, the news ignores pro life Democrats, or same sex marriage supporting, moderate gun regulating Republicans.. Not to mention outright ignoring third rails..

Basically, our politics are broken because our way of getting information is compromised, imo...

I would agree the media picks and chooses the wrong viewpoints or blows certain political view points out of proportion for hits so to speak. The only way i would see to fix that though is some kind of boycott of news media or something of that nature.

It would be nice if every time you turn on the news they actually reported about the policies pros/cons rather Hillary's e-mails or Trump's stupid comments.

Originally posted by socool8520
Look dude, we leave it at you're clearly not going to see things from my perspective (as you think I'm trolling you for some odd reason) and leave it at that. It's obvious we see things quite differently and this back and forth will do nothing but derail the thread. Sound good?

Okay, I concede. But I don't know what I'm conceding. But you're right about what we are arguing about and I was wrong. What do you want me to do, now? Meaning, what would you like to see happen from me regarding this situation or topic? I will execute if it is reasonable.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Okay, I concede. But I don't know what I'm conceding. But you're right about what we are arguing about and I was wrong. What do you want me to do, now?

No concession to be had. i wasn't looking to win anything outside of letting you know that I wasn't attacking you and that i honestly wanted to know your thoughts on how we fix this political garbage we have going on right now. I just don't want to go back and forth on misinterpretations we both seemed to have had.

Originally posted by socool8520
No concession to be had. i wasn't looking to win anything outside of letting you know that I wasn't attacking you and that i honestly wanted to know your thoughts on how we fix this political garbage we have going on right now. I just don't want to go back and forth on misinterpretations we both seemed to have had.

Okay, then my opinion is that the answer is with a combination of 2 or 3 third parties where we take the best of ideas and combine them into one "good idea" party.

Green Party, Libertarian Party, and Independent Party.