Originally posted by Emperordmb
I think both religious people and atheists would get a lot more out of an open discussion of their basic moral values and attitudes towards how to approach life and how to cultivate oneself
You want to have a discussion of morals and life? Don't bring god into it.
Originally posted by Patient_LeechI like this kid's skepticism.
There's no crime that justifies eternal punishment, especially considering we already punish people in real life.
God's a far greater sinner than any of the men he sends to eternal damnation.
Originally posted by Rockydonovang
Morality has absolute sh!t to do with whether or not you believe in god.You want to have a discussion of morals and life? Don't bring god into it.
It's one thing to admit there's bad things that have come out of religion, it's another thing to say nobody has ever benefited from it and that it's not worthwhile to have deep moral conversations between good atheists and good religious people.
Originally posted by Rockydonovang
Hell is an inherently abhorrent concept that is infinitely worse than all of humanity's sins combined.There's no crime that justifies eternal punishment, especially considering we already punish people in real life.
God's a far greater sinner than any of the men he sends to eternal damnation.
Originally posted by Emperordmb
My religious pursuits have made me a morally better human being . . . I know plenty of people like that for whom their religion has helped them grow into more kind, loving, and humble human beings with a good sense of right and wrong . . .
Again, holy books like the Bible and Koran are filled with some very conflicting moral imperatives and guidelines it is ridiculous to say that good morals come from religion. So people becoming more loving and kind human beings is a result of their own pursuits and concerns and an improving human community that has more immediate concerns than what happens in the afterlife. It's good that people focus more on the great moral truths like the Golden Rule, "DO UNTO OTHERS AS YOU WOULD HAVE THEM DO UNTO YOU." That's great. But to say you know religious people that are loving and moral is not proof of religion's role in morality because atheists are capable of love and kindness also. The point is the books are not needed and in fact they can get in the way of moral progress: like the discrimination of homosexuals and women.
^ That's not what I said. I said it's not always religion doing the motivation towards good. It's people's own innate nature and society playing and modifying religion.
And yes, it is undeniable that bad things have been the direct result of religion. Inquisition, burning of witches. I'm not saying that religion hasn't brought some good also, but it's not needed to do good in the world and it actually causes a lot of harm that wouldn't be there otherwise.
Originally posted by Emperordmbit's another thing to say nobody has ever benefited from it and that
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Originally posted by Emperordmb
it's not worthwhile to have deep moral conversations between good atheists and good religious people.
Religious people don't have some unique sense of morality the non religious don't.
Originally posted by Emperordmb
I actually agree, which is why I'm a universalist who believes everyone gets redeemed and gets into Heaven. [/B]
I'm also hoping in real life punishments are taken into consideration.
There's nuance to most of these that a meme format will never capture, so I think this is an inherently flawed way of approaching debate, which is how it's being used by some. But that one about the universe needs little outside context, imo. I saw some documentary about the stars and someone I was watching with had a similar comment, along the lines of "the sheer vastness of space makes any religion of man seem small by comparison." I think it's an issue that should be seriously grappled with by theists, but one that is too often pushed aside or not seriously considered.