Originally posted by Bashar Teg
i hope that decision is reversed. now tell us how this all fits into your leftists vs good guys narrative?
Leftism in the US, especially, is characterized about creating the largest government possible. A nanny-state where the government is all-powerful.
Removing armed police from anywhere is directly against US Leftism. A police-state is exactly what leftists want.
Did you realize this or are you so ignorant of US Politics that you think removing armed police from schools is anticonservative (but it is actually anti-leftist)?
Pretty sure that was Surt's angle, that the cop was removed due to some "lefttist" agenda and/or tears.
While Bash's point is that the cop was removed due financial concerns and cutbacks, apparently plaguing NYC schools for decades.
edit: Looking at the article in the NYpost, it seems exactly that, cops being pulled from school duty has been happening since the 90's, this guy just slipped through the system and remained on his school duty
Eh Ima have to disagree with you dadudemon. You are right that there is a tendency within the left to lack respect for the individual and want a nanny-state, but there's also a tendency to hold complete contempt for the overarching structures of our society as being "oppressive" or "racist" or what have you and that extends to the police.
Originally posted by dadudemonNo, it's about creating a government large enough to fulfil what the left sees as the duties of government, which for most American leftists typically amounts to little more than the current duties+universal healthcare (and maybe universal childcare)+better market regulations+stronger safety net. And even then, there are probably diverse opinions on how to achieve many of those goals. The idea that the beliefs of the entire American left can be condensed into 'make the government as big as possible and all powerful', as you have done, is ridiculous and lacks all nuance.
Leftism in the US, especially, is characterized about creating the largest government possible. A nanny-state where the government is all-powerful.
Removing armed police from anywhere is directly against US Leftism. A police-state is exactly what leftists want.For like, Stalinists, perhaps. Lol. But there are plenty on the left who are socially liberal and who would be repulsed by a police state. Indeed, you'd almost assuredly find more on the left raising issues like mass-incarceration, the drug war and overreach/militarization of law enforcement than you would on the right, save for the libertarian wing of the right. I don't know how many times I have to explain this to people, but you can be economically left wing and still socially liberal (and indeed, even be in agreement with libertarians on many social issues).
Did you realize this or are you so ignorant of US Politics that you think removing armed police from schools is anticonservative (but it is actually anti-leftist)? [/B]Conservatives typically place an emphasis on law and order, some to an excessive degree, and are generally the first to call for such authoritarian measures amidst a crisis. For years, conservative politicians have used the 'law and order' cudgel against those on the left. It's one of their core issues, along with social issues like abortion and guns.
Leftists, on the other hand, are more concerned with economic issues than 'law and order' and other social issues. And as I've said, there are plenty of those who are economically left wing but socially liberal and oppose things like mass incarceration, mass-surveillance, drug war and law enforcement overreach/militarization (the latter of which would encompass the issue of armed police). That's not to say that the left doesn't have its authoritarian faction, but I think most are socially liberal and do not want a police state.
Originally posted by lazybones
No, it's about creating a government large enough to fulfil what the left sees as the duties of government, which for most American leftists typically amounts to little more than the current duties+universal healthcare (and maybe universal childcare)+better market regulations+stronger safety net. And even then, there are probably diverse opinions on how to achieve many of those goals.
For like, Stalinists, perhaps. Lol. But there are plenty on the left who are socially liberal and who would be repulsed by a police state. Indeed, you'd almost assuredly find more on the left raising issues like mass-incarceration, the drug war and overreach/militarization of law enforcement than you would on the right, save for the libertarian wing of the right. I don't know how many times I have to explain this to people, but you can be economically left wing and still socially liberal (and indeed, even be in agreement with libertarians on many social issues).Conservatives typically place an emphasis on law and order, some to an excessive degree, and are generally the first to call for such authoritarian measures amidst a crisis. For years, conservative politicians have used the 'law and order' cudgel against those on the left. It's one of their core issues, along with social issues like abortion and guns.
Leftists, on the other hand, are more concerned with economic issues than 'law and order' and other social issues. And as I've said, there are plenty of those who are economically left wing but socially liberal and oppose things like mass incarceration, mass-surveillance, drug war and law enforcement overreach/militarization (the latter of which would encompass the issue of armed police). That's not to say that the left doesn't have its authoritarian faction, but I think most are socially liberal and do not want a police state.
Pew has researched this and Democrats are twice as likely to view police as enforcers:
Obama wanted to federalize police, for example, about the want for a police state. You can dress it up however you want to try and spin it to look better than it is. But US Leftists are not Liberals. This is not a "no true Scotsman" fallacy. This is just how they are in the US.
They (many of them) want to disarm the citizens and only allow and armed police state to enforce their idea of a very large and massive government that provides for many things (some good some bad) and that regulates every last minutia from the things you say to the labels on your food. Some see this is wonderful. Some see this as horrible. I'm between. Depends on what it is.
But this:
Originally posted by lazybones
The idea that the beliefs of the entire American left can be condensed into 'make the government as big as possible and all powerful', as you have done, is ridiculous and lacks all nuance.
is just pedantic bullshit. Find a real argument.
Originally posted by Emperordmb
Eh Ima have to disagree with you dadudemon. You are right that there is a tendency within the left to lack respect for the individual and want a nanny-state, but there's also a tendency to hold complete contempt for the overarching structures of our society as being "oppressive" or "racist" or what have you and that extends to the police.
Viewing the police as racist and the criminal justice system as racist is not mutually exclusive the leftists views of the police as being enforcers. Disarming people and arming the police (to have their police-state that is not racist) is what they want.
Originally posted by dadudemon
Viewing the police as racist and the criminal justice system as racist is not mutually exclusive the leftists views of the police as being enforcers. Disarming people and arming the police (to have their police-state that is not racist) is what they want.
But you have to admit it does sound weird though. "F*ck the police, they are so racist and awful. So neat idea: lets make them the only people with access to guns"