Originally posted by SurturNo it’s simple. The baker is unwilling to make any kind of cake for a gay wedding.
Well like I said there just seems to be conflicting information, when is the next date for this trial?
Let me ask you a question. Do you think it’s wrong if the baker makes a standard wedding cake for a straight couple but refuses to make that same exact cake for a gay couple?
If that’s not wrong, then why can’t small businesses take a stand against interracial marriages and so on. It’s a slippery slope.
Originally posted by DarthSkywalker0Businesses shouldn’t have the same protections as people, I’m in favor of a little government regulation to protect groups of people from discrimination by businesses
The morality is irrelevant as it is not the choice of either of us. You do not forge the cake with your energy and time so therefore it is not your choice.
Originally posted by Surtur
I think all religion is more or less terrible and using it as an excuse for something is silly. Like no meat on Fridays cuz God told me. Right. That's all as nonsensical as the latest Superman comic.But I don't think he should be forced to do so by the government. If you think he is a bigot just let the market take care of it. If it bothers other people who previously went there perhaps they will not go. And perhaps someone who was thinking about going won't go. Also as I mentioned, he stopped doing wedding cakes all together, which was 40% of his business. So if you look at it from the POV of someone who thinks he is this huge bigot, I dunno, let nature take its course.
Same with the hypothetical store not selling to interracial people. Let such things fail. Let the people expose themselves if you think they are so bad. When you take them to court they can claim victim hood.
I think all religion is more or less terrible and using it as an excuse for something is silly. Like no meat on Fridays cuz God told me. Right, or being against gay marriage. That's all as nonsensical as the latest Superman comic.
But I don't think he should be forced to do so by the government. If you think he is a bigot just let the market take care of it. If it bothers other people who previously went there perhaps they will not go. And perhaps someone who was thinking about going won't go. Also as I mentioned, he stopped doing wedding cakes all together, which was 40% of his business. So if you look at it from the POV of someone who thinks he is this huge bigot, I dunno, let nature take its course.
Same with the hypothetical store not selling to interracial people. Let such things fail. Let the people expose themselves if you think they are so bad. When you take them to court they can claim victim hood. IMO a store such as you just described would not last long.
Originally posted by SurturFair enough, we can agree to disagree
I think all religion is more or less terrible and using it as an excuse for something is silly. Like no meat on Fridays cuz God told me. Right, or being against gay marriage. That's all as nonsensical as the latest Superman comic.But I don't think he should be forced to do so by the government. If you think he is a bigot just let the market take care of it. If it bothers other people who previously went there perhaps they will not go. And perhaps someone who was thinking about going won't go. Also as I mentioned, he stopped doing wedding cakes all together, which was 40% of his business. So if you look at it from the POV of someone who thinks he is this huge bigot, I dunno, let nature take its course.
Same with the hypothetical store not selling to interracial people. Let such things fail. Let the people expose themselves if you think they are so bad. When you take them to court they can claim victim hood. IMO a store such as you just described would not last long.
Originally posted by Firefly218
They asked for him to craft a Wedding themed cake, not a gay themed cake. The man was not being forced, in the artistic crafting of the cake, to endorse homosexuality.
What you state here is in direct contradiction of official court testimony. The words used were "gay themed."
Edit - Guys, WTF? Pages and pages ago, I cleared up the argument over the gay themed wedding cake. This is not in debate or under contention. Why are you arguing about it? It was a gay themed gay. Period. It was a custom cake request for a gay themed cake. To decorate it.
What is in contention in the courts is whether or not an artist can be forced to do art against their beliefs. He did not turn them away. What is not in contention is whether or not it was a generic wedding cake or a gay themed wedding cake.
I see the same right wing retards are still trying to muddy the waters with the same bullshit arguments.
If a straight couple purchased a wedding cake from him, and then recorded themselves sitting on it for a sploosh porn, is the baker suddenly endorsing pornography? No. Because it is none of his ****ing business what the intend to do with it after it leaves his shop, and it does not reflect back on him in anyway.
In the same way, if a gay couple purchased a wedding cake from him, and then ate it with friends and family at a reception, he is not endorsing gay marriage. The cake is not speech. His providing is neither an endorsement or condemnation of anything, because it is none of his ****ing business. His job is to bake the cake, not have an opinion about the customers or what they intend to do with it.
And while we are at it, we can put this bullshit argument to rest too: the baker did not object to a specific message or theme, because one was not communicated, let alone requested. He rejected the request, stating that he categorically would not sell a product he provides to gay couples. So all this bullshit about asking Muslims to sell pork, and Jews to create messages celebrating Nazis is just that—bullshit. Pro tip: if you have to misrepresent the facts of the case in order to come up with a plausible-sounding defense, then you are intellectually and morally bankrupt.
Bottom line for me, can a straight couple go and order a cake for a gay wedding and receive it? If yes, it's f*cked up. If not, stop whining like a little b*tch. Are you a baby? It's a cake. Act like an adult. Not a child in an adult body. If this is a "Big" situation let me know, I'll cut you some slack.
Originally posted by Adam_PoE
I see the same right wing retards are still trying to muddy the waters with the same bullshit arguments.If a straight couple purchased a wedding cake from him, and then recorded themselves sitting on it for a sploosh porn, is the baker suddenly endorsing pornography? No. Because it is none of his ****ing business what the intend to do with it after it leaves his shop, and it does not reflect back on him in anyway.
In the same way, if a gay couple purchased a wedding cake from him, and then ate it with friends and family at a reception, he is not endorsing gay marriage. The cake is not speech. His providing is neither an endorsement or condemnation of anything, because it is none of his ****ing business. His job is to bake the cake, not have an opinion about the customers or what they intend to do with it.
And while we are at it, we can put this bullshit argument to rest too: the baker did not object to a specific message or theme, because one was not communicated, let alone requested. He rejected the request, stating that he categorically would not sell a product he provides to gay couples. So all this bullshit about asking Muslims to sell pork, and Jews to create messages celebrating Nazis is just that—bullshit. Pro tip: if you have to misrepresent the facts of the case in order to come up with a plausible-sounding defense, then you are intellectually and morally bankrupt.
Originally posted by Robtard
^
Originally posted by ILS
Why does this have 21 pages? You can't force someone to bake a friggin' cake if they don't want to bake a friggin' cake, regardless of their reasons. It's his business, it's his time and energy, he can spend it however he wants. Let him get shitty reviews and move on.
Y U such a right-wing fascist bigot, boi!?
Originally posted by ILSIt has 21 pages because discussion is salvation
Why does this have 21 pages? You can't force someone to bake a friggin' cake if they don't want to bake a friggin' cake, regardless of their reasons. It's his business, it's his time and energy, he can spend it however he wants. Let him get shitty reviews and move on.