Originally posted by Lord Stark
Caught by surprise? Bruh he just peered into his mind and saw his violent will and had his ****ing lightsaber in hand. Wtf did he think was gonna happen? Ben was just gonna be like 'Oh I'm sure you have a great explanation for trying to murder me'. Especially after he drew his lightsaber.
Which is nothing compared to Sheev zapping Yoda and then Yoda pushing Sheev. Characters are idiots from time to time and get caught off guard when they shouldn't.
Originally posted by ares834
Which is nothing compared to Sheev zapping Yoda and then Yoda pushing Sheev. Characters are idiots from time to time and get caught off guard when they shouldn't.
Except you are comparing Darth Sidious, the most powerful Sith Lord in galactic history and Yoda, the most powerful Jedi in galactic history. Them catching each other off guard is pretty acceptable because of who they are and their power. If Yoda got caught off guard and TK'd by AOTCs Anakin we'd all be ****ing talking about what a garbage feat it is for Yoda especially if he also had zero combat feats against people like Sidious and Dooku.
Originally posted by Psychotron
But that was an example of both being arrogant. Luke doesn't get that excuse. Not saying Ben beat him or whatever, but it was dumb.
My point exactly.
Originally posted by Lord Stark
Except you are comparing Darth Sidious, the most powerful Sith Lord in galactic history and Yoda, the most powerful Jedi in galactic history. Them catching each other off guard is pretty acceptable because of who they are and their power. If Yoda got caught off guard and TK'd by AOTCs Anakin we'd all be ****ing talking about what a garbage feat it is for Yoda especially if he also had zero combat feats against people like Sidious and Dooku.
Their power level is irrelevant to catching them off guard.
Originally posted by ares834
Their power level is irrelevant to catching them off guard.
First of all...yes it is. You're not going to catch Darth Sidious or Yoda getting force choked by TPM Anakin and with good reason.
Second even the idea that Luke was "caught off guard" is a ridiculous assertion. Luke was not off guard. He was holding an active ****ing lightsaber. If he wasn't expecting a fight why didn't he deactivate it? Why because he sensed Ben was going to attack him (which he did and did proceed to block Ben's attack). If he was wasn't on guard he would have been cleaved in two. He wasn't caught off guard. He underestimated Kylo and got punished for it. +Its embarrassing that he got knocked out for hours by that.
We see people caught off guard by inferior opponents multiple times. Sure, you may not see the two get force choked but pushed back or lifted up and thrown down a giant pit? Yeah, you might.
And yes, he was caught off guard. Luke obviously has the power to block a collapsing hut so the fact that he didn’t shows that it caught him, you guessed it, off guard. And yes, he was caught off guard because he underestimated Ben. Yes, it "embarrassing" but it speaks to nothing about his abilities as a combatant.
Originally posted by ares834
We see people caught off guard by inferior opponents multiple times. Sure, you may not see the two get force choked but pushed back or lifted up and thrown down a giant pit? Yeah, you might.And yes, he was caught off guard. Luke obviously has the power to block a collapsing hut so the fact that he didn’t shows that it caught him, you guessed it, off guard. And yes, he was caught off guard because he underestimated Ben. Yes, it "embarrassing" but it speaks to nothing about his abilities as a combatant.
Originally posted by ares834
We see people caught off guard by inferior opponents multiple times. Sure, you may not see the two get force choked but pushed back or lifted up and thrown down a giant pit? Yeah, you might.And yes, he was caught off guard. Luke obviously has the power to block a collapsing hut so the fact that he didn’t shows that it caught him, you guessed it, off guard. And yes, he was caught off guard because he underestimated Ben. Yes, it "embarrassing" but it speaks to nothing about his abilities as a combatant.
Except the fact that Darth Vader died from that. And no shit Luke could in the best state of mind. Yes he was conflicted, yes that contributed to his reaction. But its still solidly below what I would expect from other combatants in the mythos. Emotionally conflicted Anakin, for example, can still fight on par with a powerful Jedi Master, Obi-Wan Kenobi. The point I'm making is that the likes of Krayt, Sidious, Yoda, and yes even Maul would never be caught like that, even whilst emotionally conflicted.
Originally posted by ares834
Uh. Maul was caught way worse by Obi-Wan, Kanan, Clones, etc...
Lol it wasn't way worse with Kenobi and Kanan because both were experiencing oneness with the force (don't recall the Clones example but I'd believe it), and in all those examples Maul was rightfully lambasted. And you also then have the reverse with Dooku being in bed and drugged and still defeating three highly skilled assassins.