Originally posted by The Ellimist
No, but your attempted deflection from ours as you lost ground isn't very difficult to spot out, lmao.
I wouldn't even consider that previous discussion an argument. The gif was the end of it at any rate, a clear dismissal of your post. Afterwards I was just genuinely surprised at you acting like I was coming up with this idea.
You should try to be less combative with people.
Originally posted by Nephthys
I wouldn't even consider that previous discussion an argument. The gif was the end of it at any rate, a clear dismissal of your post. Afterwards I was just genuinely surprised at you acting like I was coming up with this idea.
I never said you came up with the idea, I said that you simultaneously holding the idea and thinking Plagueis is below Valkorion is hilariously self-contradicting, which it is.
You should try to be less combative with people.
I mean I was being nice to you until you went all apeshit and started randomly accusing me off fake sh*t, so I'm back to mocking your shitty arguments like everyone else. 👆
Originally posted by The Ellimist
Valkorion supporters, please answer for me:
[list]
[*]Why did the Force need the Chosen One to defeat Plagueis and Sidious, but not Vitiate and his empire?
[*]Why are the light and dark sides described as fluctuating in balance during TOR, while Sidious and Plagueis tip it to the dark even *with* the Jedi Order still there?
[*]When has Valkorion tanked the full-powered lightning of a TPM Sidious level opponent for a sustained monologue without any physical injury?
[*]When has any other sith been able to replicate sorcery and rituals *through sheer willpower* without having any affinity for sorcery or even knowing how to f*cking do it?
[/list]
1: Because of the ritual performed by Sidious and Plagueis that shifted the balance of the Force so much that it spun the galaxy into a decade long downward spiral into the Dark Side's grasp. The nature and effects of the ritual are why the Force chose to create Anakin. Plus, they straight up attempted to dominate the Force itself, something nobody else had made an attempt to do, so the Force reacted by creating the Chosen One. It can be assumed that, had Vitiate, or Darth Revan, or Darth Bane, or any other Sith or group of Sith attempted to do the same and met the same success, that the Force would have responded the same way. The creation of Anakin was due to the ritual, due to what was being attempted, WHO was attempting it is inconsequential.
2: The aforementioned ritual. It was a constant flow of Dark Side energy being poured into a wellspring of Dark Side power (not literally) in a consistent effort to overpower the Force's will. It was a MASSIVE build up of Dark Side energy forced on the galaxy over a course of months, coming from the two most powerful Sith in the Banite line. Plus, it was made easier to saturate the galaxy with the Dark Side due to Tenebrous' Master's popping of the Jedi Order's Light Side bubble. Had that not happened, there's not even a guarantee that what Sidious and Plagueis did would have even worked.
3: Irrelevant. Plagueis has some of the best durability feats in the mythos, but they do very little to prove that he'd win a fight with Valkorion. Revan has better durability feats than Valkorion, such as surviving Vitiate's own lightning. Yet those feats to f*ck all to help Revan win any kind of fight with Vitiate. Unless I'm misunderstanding the point, this question of yours has no real relevance as I understand it, and is a lapse in logic.
4: Never, given Plagueis did not and could not do it on his own. He had the help of Sidious, constant flow of power from both them pouring into the ritual, and months of time between the start and end of the ritual. It's not at all attributable to Plagueis alone, and is in no way an indicator of Plagueis' own strength.
🙂
Originally posted by Freedon NaddWhere did this quote come from? If you have a link to the original, would you mind sharing it?
"If Valkorion wanted to imbalance the Force like Plagueis and Sidious, he could. Of course. Yeah. But don't tell Lucas."
-Drew Karpyshyn, hour: 03:08 A.M, social site: KMC Forum, place and source: Laptop
Originally posted by darthbane77
1: Because of the ritual performed by Sidious and Plagueis that shifted the balance of the Force so much that it spun the galaxy into a decade long downward spiral into the Dark Side's grasp. The nature and effects of the ritual are why the Force chose to create Anakin. Plus, they straight up attempted to dominate the Force itself, something nobody else had made an attempt to do,
😐 No other Sith ever thought to either dominate the Force or manipulate midichlorians? Come on now. If Vitiate could've shrouded the precognitive abilities of the Jedi Order and tilted the galaxy towards the dark side, he damn as hell would've, as the pragmatics are pretty obvious. Yet he didn't.
so the Force reacted by creating the Chosen One. It can be assumed that, had Vitiate, or Darth Revan, or Darth Bane, or any other Sith or group of Sith attempted to do the same and met the same success, that the Force would have responded the same way. The creation of Anakin was due to the ritual, due to what was being attempted, WHO was attempting it is inconsequential.
^ lmao and your assumption is based on what, exactly?
Plenty of Sith have tried to do esoteric and forbidden things and plenty have unbalanced the Force before. What makes Plagueis and Sidious's feat so impressive is 1) the magnitude of their manipulation and 2) the lengths to which the Force had to go to defeat them (creating the Star Wars Messiah figure). To put it in perspective, Sidious and Plagueis meditating on an island for a month threatened the Force more than Vitiate spending a thousand years doing arcane sorcery. The difference is pretty palpable.
2: The aforementioned ritual. It was a constant flow of Dark Side energy being poured into a wellspring of Dark Side power (not literally) in a consistent effort to overpower the Force's will. It was a MASSIVE build up of Dark Side energy forced on the galaxy over a course of months, coming from the two most powerful Sith in the Banite line. Plus, it was made easier to saturate the galaxy with the Dark Side due to Tenebrous' Master's popping of the Jedi Order's Light Side bubble. Had that not happened, there's not even a guarantee that what Sidious and Plagueis did would have even worked.
You're describing the meditation session (though not sure if it's a "ritual" in the traditional sense) but not actually mitigating its magnitude. Tenebrous's Master's actions only bring the playing field to even ground if that, and it unto itself is a pretty massive feat that we can powerscaling Plagueis and Sidious over.
3: Irrelevant. Plagueis has some of the best durability feats in the mythos, but they do very little to prove that he'd win a fight with Valkorion. Revan has better durability feats than Valkorion, such as surviving Vitiate's own lightning. Yet those feats to f*ck all to help Revan win any kind of fight with Vitiate. Unless I'm misunderstanding the point, this question of yours has no real relevance as I understand it, and is a lapse in logic.
Revan's durability is a legitimate point to make for him, though he does not have the other things going for him that would allow him to defeat Valkorion. The notion that durability doesn't matter because unto itself it cannot overcome massive disadvantages in every other area is preposterous. Mind you, the nature of their durability is very different - Plagueis's MM means that it's very possible Valkorion's attacks won't even hurt him in the first place!
The other important deduction from the healing feat comes from Plagueis's claim that healing via MM is much more difficult than killing via MM. This would suggest that if he can heal from Sidious's lightning, he can kill...well, almost anyone pretty easily.
4: Never, given Plagueis did not and could not do it on his own. He had the help of Sidious, constant flow of power from both them pouring into the ritual, and months of time between the start and end of the ritual. It's not at all attributable to Plagueis alone, and is in no way an indicator of Plagueis' own strength.
And yet pretty much every major Sith outside of the Banite line who people think rivals Plagueis had way more support in every area than that (unless if you acknowledge that pre-Sidious's presence is really that massive, in which case, that helps my point too).