If it’s okay for a nine year old to be able to choose their genders at such a young age, is it also okay to allow a different nine year old to smoke, have sex, drink and everything adults do?
Second question.
So if we’re allowing kids at such a young age chose their genders, can they be considers adults? After all, this is a big life altering decision, decisions that even grown adult stuggles with.
If the U.S. government allows a couple to immigrate to this country, and their son, who is born here, does not support the American values of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, can we send him back to their country of origin?
If he cares so much about how other people want to present themselves, maybe he would be happier living somewhere with a lot less freedom.
Originally posted by Adam_PoE
If the U.S. government allows a couple to immigrate to this country, and their son, who is born here, does not support the American values of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, can we send him back to their country of origin?If he cares so much about how other people want to present themselves, maybe he would be happier living somewhere with a lot less freedom.
Say focus. That has nothing to do with the question, not at all. What you’re doing is comparing oranges to apple and passing it off as the same thing.
Originally posted by SquallX
If it’s okay for a nine year old to be able to choose their genders at such a young age, is it also okay to allow a different nine year old to smoke, have sex, drink and everything adults do?Second question.
So if we’re allowing kids at such a young age chose their genders, can they be considers adults? After all, this is a big life altering decision, decisions that even grown adult stuggles with.
Yes to all.
However, as I've said before, I think people should have to take tests to get a "sex card" that proves that they are developed enough, emotionally, to meet an minimum standard that would be set for normal adults. Likely, such a license would bar many adults from being able to consent. However, such a license may result in extreme geniuses, who are children, to be able to pass.
Originally posted by dadudemon
Yes to all.However, as I've said before, I think people should have to take tests to get a "sex card" that proves that they are developed enough, emotionally, to meet an minimum standard that would be set for normal adults. Likely, such a license would bar many adults from being able to consent. However, such a license may result in extreme geniuses, who are children, to be able to pass.
Agree.
Originally posted by BackFire
It's only a life altering decision if they lop their dick off or alter their body in some way. Otherwise they can freely revert back to the other gender if they want, nothing stopping them.
Not all transgender people experience dysphoria. Meaning that some transgender people do not seek any medical interventions at all. No cross-hormone therapy, no sex-reassignment surgeries, nothing. Many are content to dress and present themselves in a way that is consistent with how they identify.
That is why this is such a non-issue. Nobody is letting children alter their bodies. They have to wait until they are adults, and they need the written permission of multiple psychologists.
What this boils down to is people uncomfortable with children cross-dressing. These same people used to believe that if girls and women were allowed to wear pants, they would become lesbians or transmen. It is ridiculous. It is as if they believe clothes have magic powers.
At the end of the day, what we classify as "boys clothes" and "girls clothes" are as arbitrary as social distinctions between boys and girls themselves. There is nothing about a skirt that makes it "for girls," other than because we say so. And like any arbitrary standard, we could just a easily say the opposite.
People who cross-dress are exposing the arbitrary nature of the rules about gender, and it makes people who are not certain of who they are outside of that framework uncomfortable. If you are secure in who you are as a person, shifting definitions of what is acceptable does not shake your foundations, let alone to the point that you double-down lest your house of cards come tumbling down.
Originally posted by SquallX
If it’s okay for a nine year old to be able to choose their genders at such a young age, is it also okay to allow a different nine year old to smoke, have sex, drink and everything adults do?Second question.
So if we’re allowing kids at such a young age chose their genders, can they be considers adults? After all, this is a big life altering decision, decisions that even grown adult stuggles with.
Curious, you didn't choose your male gender as a kid?
Originally posted by Adam_PoETo me I am uncomfortable mainly with the fact that transgender people are literally the only group who, when they do experience body dysmorphia, we as a society essentially cosign their delusional fixation with "being born in the wrong body" and even encourage them to medically alter themselves. Children or not it's pretty ****ed, tbh. It's the most extreme example I can think of where when we see someone suffering a delusion and instead of trying to steer them back towards reality, we double down on the delusion. I'm not at all convinced that in 100 years humanity wont look back at sex reassignment surgery with the same sort of cringe that we look back on the failed pseudo scientific medical cures of the past ( lobotomies, blood letting, etc etc).
Not all transgender people experience dysphoria. Meaning that some transgender people do not seek any medical interventions at all. No cross-hormone therapy, no sex-reassignment surgeries, nothing. Many are content to dress and present themselves in a way that is consistent with how they identify.That is why this is such a non-issue. Nobody is letting children alter their bodies. They have to wait until they are adults, and they need the written permission of multiple psychologists.
What this boils down to is people uncomfortable with children cross-dressing. These same people used to believe that if girls and women were allowed to wear pants, they would become lesbians or transmen. It is ridiculous. It is as if they believe clothes have magic powers.
At the end of the day, what we classify as "boys clothes" and "girls clothes" are as arbitrary as social distinctions between boys and girls themselves. There is nothing about a skirt that makes it "for girls," other than because we say so. And like any arbitrary standard, we could just a easily say the opposite.
People who cross-dress are exposing the arbitrary nature of the rules about gender, and it makes people who are not certain of who they are outside of that framework uncomfortable. If you are secure in who you are as a person, shifting definitions of what is acceptable does not shake your foundations, let alone to the point that you double-down lest your house of cards come tumbling down.
Originally posted by Afro Cheese
To me I am uncomfortable mainly with the fact that transgender people are literally the only group who, when they do experience body dysmorphia, we as a society essentially cosign their delusional fixation with "being born in the wrong body" and even encourage them to medically alter themselves. Children or not it's pretty ****ed, tbh. It's the most extreme example I can think of where when we see someone suffering a delusion and instead of trying to steer them back towards reality, we double down on the delusion. I'm not at all convinced that in 100 years humanity wont look back at sex reassignment surgery with the same sort of cringe that we look back on the failed pseudo scientific medical cures of the past ( lobotomies, blood letting, etc etc).
I do not happen to think cosmetic procedures are a good treatment for dysphoria of any kind. However, psychology is more concerned with doing what works, and in the case of people experience extreme dysphoria, to the point they are suicidal, cosmetic procedures, while not ideal, can often be effective. It is certainly preferable to the alternative, which is a dead patient.
Yet post op trans people have just as high a suicide rate as pre-op trans people. I feel for them, I don't know what the answer is. But yea.. the fact that even our psychologists are accepting the idea that someone can be "born into the wrong sex" makes me extremely nervous. Like let's say some hormonal flush in the womb is the cause, for example. Isn't the correct conclusion to draw then not that the person was born in the wrong body, but with a deformed brain? Wouldn't preventing the deformity (if possible) be the ultimate ideal solution to such a problem?
Originally posted by Afro Cheese
Yet post op trans people have just as high a suicide rate as pre-op trans people. I feel for them, I don't know what the answer is.
That is not because cosmetic surgery did not address their dysphoria, it is because addressing their dysphoria did not solve all of their problems. Many trans people think that if they could only feel comfortable in their own skin, then everything in their lives would be better. Obviously, that is not the case.
To quote Pepper LaBeija, "A lot of kids that I know, they got the sex change because they felt, 'Oh, I been treated so bad . . . if I get a pussy'—excuse the expression—'I'll be treated fabulously.' But women get treated bad. You know, they get beat, they get robbed, they get dogged. So having the vagina, that doesn't mean you're going to have a fabulous life."
Originally posted by Afro Cheese
But yea.. the fact that even our psychologists are accepting the idea that someone can be "born into the wrong sex" makes me extremely nervous. Like let's say some hormonal flush in the womb is the cause, for example. Isn't the correct conclusion to draw then not that the person was born in the wrong body, but with a deformed brain? Wouldn't preventing the deformity (if possible) be the ultimate ideal solution to such a problem?
At that point, the horse has left the stable, so prevention is going to be useless as a treatment.
Originally posted by Robtard
Curious, you didn't choose your male gender as a kid?
Well as a kid, I had a towel wrapped around my neck with the Superman symbol in the back. Always wanted to be Superman, until I reliaze it was impossible. So I grew out of it.
So by you’re answer, I guess you agree, if a nine year can choose their gender, it’s no different if said child decides its okay to have sex? Or be held to the same accountability as an adult?
That is not because cosmetic surgery did not address their dysphoria, it is because addressing their dysphoria did not solve all of their problems. Many trans people think that if they could only feel comfortable in their own skin, then everything in their lives would be better. Obviously, that is not the case.That seems like pure conjecture on your part, but even if it's true, wouldn't that still mean the surgery DOESN'T solve the problem of "a dead patient" since they still end up with the same % of dead patients?To quote Pepper LaBeija, "A lot of kids that I know, they got the sex change because they felt, 'Oh, I been treated so bad . . . if I get a pussy'—excuse the expression—'I'll be treated fabulously.' But women get treated bad. You know, they get beat, they get robbed, they get dogged. So having the vagina, that doesn't mean you're going to have a fabulous life."
At that point, the horse has left the stable, so prevention is going to be useless as a treatment.I'm saying if it were possible to prevent the "hormonal flush" or whatever it is that causes the person to become transgender in the first place.
Originally posted by Robtard
I asked you a question which you didn't really answer then you built a nice strawman-like argument for me. Okay then.ps Trump called Haiti a "shithole country" and by extension its people as he doesn't want Haitians immigrating.
Because there was nothing to answer. I was born a male, I never chose my gender, for there was nothing to change.
Now, you either follow the original questions I put up, or leave this thread.
As for Thrump, I could care less what he says. Just because he says something stupid, doesn’t mean I have to be screaming about it like a retard with no common sense.
That is not because cosmetic surgery did not address their dysphoria, it is because addressing their dysphoria did not solve all of their problems. Many trans people think that if they could only feel comfortable in their own skin, then everything in their lives would be better. Obviously, that is not the case.To quote Pepper LaBeija, "A lot of kids that I know, they got the sex change because they felt, 'Oh, I been treated so bad . . . if I get a pussy'—excuse the expression—'I'll be treated fabulously.' But women get treated bad. You know, they get beat, they get robbed, they get dogged. So having the vagina, that doesn't mean you're going to have a fabulous life."
Adam is actually 100% right here. If we use the study where this stat comes from you will also find that when you inculcate trans people into society early by cross-dressing, their suicide rates drop severely.