Started by Adam_PoE3 pages
Originally posted by Afro Cheese
That seems like pure conjecture on your part, but even if it's true, wouldn't that still mean the surgery DOESN'T solve the problem of "a dead patient" since they still end up with the same % of dead patients?

It is not conjecture. That is the finding of the psychiatric literature. Moreover, where are you getting this notion that the suicide rate remains the same whether dysphoria is treated surgically or not? If it was not a net benefit for a plurality of patients, it would not be a recommended course of treatment.

Originally posted by SquallX
Well as a kid, I had a towel wrapped around my neck with the Superman symbol in the back. Always wanted to be Superman, until I reliaze it was impossible. So I grew out of it.

Then by your own reasoning, children who cross-dress will grow out of it too, so what the **** are you so worried about?

Originally posted by SquallX
So by you’re answer, I guess you agree, if a nine year can choose their gender, it’s no different if said child decides its okay to have sex? Or be held to the same accountability as an adult?

Wait a minute, your parents let you dress as a superhero when you were a child! If a 9-year-old can choose to wear a cape, then by your reasoning, that is no different than a parent allowing him to have sex. Do you realize how stupid you sound? Those things have nothing to do with each other.

Originally posted by Squallx
Because there was nothing to answer. I was born a male, I never chose my gender, for there was nothing to change.

No one chooses their gender, that is the entire point. People who are trans are born with a sex/gender incongruity. Hence, why they seek to change one or the other to bring them into alignment.

Originally posted by Squallx
Now, you either follow the original questions I put up, or leave this thread.

You do not dictate the terms by which others post.

Originally posted by Squallx
As for Thrump, I could care less what he says. Just because he says something stupid, doesn’t mean I have to be screaming about it like a retard with no common sense.

So to be clear, Trump said you are an immigrant from a shithole country and he wants to deport you, and you still support him.

I don't know about you guys but I always feel so sexy when I wear my kilt 😊

Originally posted by SquallX
Because there was nothing to answer. I was born a male, I never chose my gender, for there was nothing to change.

Now, you either follow the original questions I put up, or leave this thread.

As for Thrump, I could care less what he says. Just because he says something stupid, doesn’t mean I have to be screaming about it like a retard with no common sense.

"I didn't choose" would be answer and you could have initially answered that the first time.

Your question is ridiculous. You're conflating gender, with acts that are known to be harmful, smoking and drinking. No, we should not allow nine year olds smoke/drink. As for sex, that's not so cut and dry. I believe a nine year old isn't ready for sexual intercourse, other people will argue that biologically they're able and and it's cool. As already noted by BF, unless something like surgery is done, a boy dressing/living as a girl can easily go back to dressing/living as a boy. No harm done, so who cares, it's a mater for the child and his/her parents.

Was just informing you, easy.

Originally posted by DarthSkywalker0
Adam is actually 100% right here. If we use the study where this stat comes from you will also find that when you inculcate trans people into society early by cross-dressing, their suicide rates drop severely.

What? Really? Nice.

Citation?

The early onset boy-to-girl dressing-up is something that isn't all that uncommon in the Philippines, least I was told this by more than one Filipino. I don't think trans people are offing themselves in droves over their either. So it does seem the earlier one feels accepted as how they see themselves, the less likely they're to feel as outcasts.

Maybe this has changed, as I was told this 10+ years ago.

edit: In fact, you're in a position to add weight to this, DDM. Edit2: I'm not implying that DDM is a Filipino trans gender

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
Then by your own reasoning, children who cross-dress will grow out of it too, so what the **** are you so worried about?

Wait a minute, your parents let you dress as a superhero when you were a child! If a 9-year-old can choose to wear a cape, then by your reasoning, that is no different than a parent allowing him to have sex. Do you realize how stupid you sound? Those things have nothing to do with each other.

Jesus no!

Playing pretend is something children have been doing since time immemorial. It’s completely different form being a transgender.

My parents let me dress as a superhero because I was a child that didn’t know any better. It’s different because parents and those in power are forcing it down kids throat. And yes, if we’re to believe a child as the mental capacity to change its sex, then we shouldn’t be mad if said child wants to have sex.

Back in mediaval era, there were child brides,, but as we grew as a society, we came to see it as immoral, and that’s why we tend to put people that sleep with children in jail.

Squall, if you didn't choose your own male gender, why do you think someone who is born physically with a penis but feels they're a female internally chose theirs?

Yeah, I agree with the notion that as long as no body-altering harm is done, the child can make believe as they wish.

Originally posted by MythLord
Yeah, I agree with the notion that as long as no body-altering harm is done, the child can make believe as they wish.

Bit of a diff between "Make Believe" and "Believing its Real".

Originally posted by Flyattractor
Bit of a diff between "Make Believe" and "Believing its Real".

If it's a phase, and no harm is done, I again don't see any real problem.

Originally posted by SquallX
It’s different because parents and those in power are forcing it down kids throat.

Really? Is there anything your parents and "those in power" could have done to convince you that you were a girl?

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
It is not conjecture. That is the finding of the psychiatric literature. Moreover, where are you getting this notion that the suicide rate remains the same whether dysphoria is treated surgically or not? If it was not a net benefit for a plurality of patients, it would not be a recommended course of treatment.
That's what I had read somewhere. If it's true what DarthSkywalker said then I am open to it... though I would like to see the citation. If nobody posts one I will try to look it up myself.

But assuming it does reduce the suicide rate I am no necessarily opposed to sex reassignment. Hell, even if it doesn't I'm not trying to tell people what they can or can't do with their own bodies. It just makes me nervous is all. Just like I wouldn't tell people not to get a boob job... something about it strikes me as them just failing to find contentment with their real bodies. It's a sort of tricky subject though since it seems less controversial if they have an obvious deformity which they seek to correct through cosmetic surgery. But when it's just a matter of they would rather have huge breasts etc... it seems like a slippery slope to me. Virtually all of us have things about our looks/bodies that we might like to change. At what point do you just learn to accept what you were born with?

But I'm still curious to hear anyone answer my hypothetical question: if it were possible at some point to prevent someone from being transgender in the first place by preventing whatever it is in the womb that causes the condition, would that not be the ideal solution? Or would we shy away from that because it seems to suggest that being transgender is actually a sort of birth defect/deformity? In other words, part of what makes me nervous about the whole transgender thing in modern society is I get the feeling we are sometimes more beholden to emotion than to facts, or to ideology rather than to science. We will seek out answers that seem more "accepting" because that reflects our modern values. And to be clear, I do hold those values in high regard. I don't want to make life any harder for any marginalized group than it needs to be. But I also hold the ideals of scientific reasoning and objectivity in high regard.

So I tend to wonder about where this is all heading. Is this not a first step towards the path of also accepting things like "trans-racial," "trans-species," etc. I know many will decry this as a slippery slope fallacy, but it seems to me that's the direction it's going. Broader acceptance of different sexual orientations has allowed room for things like furries, objective sexuals, etc to gain acceptance alongside gays and lesbians. Once you apply the logic of acceptance and normalization to one group, it gets more and more difficult and hypocritical to deny it to other, more obscure groups.

Also... with regard to children... It seems to me there is a decent argument to be made that if you start the intervention before or as soon as puberty begins it will be more effective. So if we normalize the idea of transgender children it doesn't seem like a huge leap to think that could eventually lead to the emergence of children starting the physical transition phase as preteens rather than as adults. It might just require parental consent... and in the modern era I don't find it too hard to believe there are parents who would offer that consent.

Originally posted by Afro Cheese
. . . something about it strikes me as them just failing to find contentment with their real bodies. . . . Virtually all of us have things about our looks/bodies that we might like to change. At what point do you just learn to accept what you were born with?

Why accept something when you do not have to?

Originally posted by dadudemon
What? Really? Nice.

Citation?

It's a study conducted at UCLA.

https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/wp-content/uploads/AFSP-Williams-Suicide-Report-Final.pdf

crossdressing is one thing... hormones, puberty blockers, surgery? **** no

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
Why accept something when you do not have to?
It's the same thing you were saying about expectations... instead of assuming happiness is at the other side of a boob job, just stop fixating on the idea that your well-being depends on changing something that doesn't necessarily need to be changed.

So no answer to my hypothetical question?

Originally posted by Emperordmb
crossdressing is one thing... hormones, puberty blockers, surgery? **** no

I thought the current Leftist Scientific Thought was that all you needed to change your SEX was The Power of...

Originally posted by Afro Cheese
It's the same thing you were saying about expectations... instead of assuming happiness is at the other side of a boob job, just stop fixating on the idea that your well-being depends on changing something that doesn't necessarily need to be changed.

So no answer to my hypothetical question?

Because sometimes happiness is at the other side of a boob job.

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