Yes, the Force drain happens on-screen. That moronic source confirms it. Though I wonder why it wasn't animated.
That's it. They(Nihilus and Sion) drained her power and they exiled her. Nothing counters my post. That moronic source states the same. They drain her powers and exile her.
Don't *facepalm*.
[It's clearly by author's choice that we don't see Nihilus cutting her from the Force.]
Yeah? 'Cause you say so? And actually the whole Sever actually does happen on-screen when he TK's her against the wall. But for odd reasons it isn't colorized.
[We still see the effects of it with Kreia not being able to lift her saber and her own commentary that she was stripped from the Force.]
Yes, she is beaten and stripped off her power. That's all. That's what the source says too.
[Add to that Nihilus' modus operandi of using Drain and the KotORCG confirming it, and you get my stance on the matter.]
I don't get your stance. Nihilus has Mastery over that technique. He can choose how much he drains someone. He can eat their connections and let them live without the Force. That's how even his zombie crew lives(though they are still passively drained): Because he hasn't consumed their Force&life connections entirely.
This doesn't debunk the fact they exiled her.
[And no, if she can elude Nihilus and Sion she can obviously elude their underlings. lol]
Except for the fact that she doesn't have the Force anymore. And the Sith are ruled by Darths Nihilus and Sion. Who is the strongest rules. And they'd accept their command, not hers.
Originally posted by SunRazer
That's what I meant. The animation is off-screen (I meant seeing Nihilus actually doing it).The source is only moronic because you don't like it.
I meant animation as in colorized on the scene. No, the source is moronic because Nihilus' drain cannot be seen when he strips Kreia off her Force connections on-screen when he TK's her against the wall. Due to the fact that what he does to Kreia on-screen isn't represented as Force drain (like it's usually done in the game) I assumed it was a dark variant of Sever Force.
Yeah? 'Cause you say so?
No, because we see the effects right after. Unlike you, I don't try to make up and distort facts to support an agenda.
And actually the whole Sever actually does happen on-screen when he TK's her against the wall. But for odd reasons it isn't colorized.Yes, she is beaten and stripped off her power. That's all. That's what the source says too.
"For odd reasons" and yet you were challenging me on the fact that I mentioned the drain not being animated? lol
You've got a pitifully weak grasp of logic. Doesn't seem like you can even understand the concept of double standards.
I don't get your stance. Nihilus has Mastery over that technique. He can choose how much he drains someone. He can eat their connections and let them live without the Force. That's how even his zombie crew lives(though they are still passively drained): Because he hasn't consumed their Force&life connections entirely.
What Nihilus' crew suffers from, as you correctly observed, is Nihilus' passive Drain. His aura. That's obviously not what happened with Kreia. So no, there's no "mastery" involved with that.
This doesn't debunk the fact they exiled her.
Sure they exiled her; unintentionally. Nowhere does it say they intended to exile her as opposed to intending to kill her. They wanted to kill her but only succeeded in stripping her of her power so she fled.
Except for the fact that she doesn't have the Force anymore. And the Sith are ruled by Darths Nihilus and Sion. Who is the strongest rules. And they'd accept their command, not hers.
That depends. The Force was ripped from her, but by her admission not entirely. That is, after all, how she regains her Force powers over time.
Point me to where I said she'd command them. I said she'd elude them. Bring out the dictionary again and tell me what that means.
[What Nihilus' crew suffers from, as you correctly observed, is Nihilus' passive Drain. His aura. That's obviously not what happened with Kreia. So no, there's no "mastery" involved with that.]
That's a point too. But Nihilus can Force drain someone and not consume them entirely if he wishes too. That's what you don't get apparently. You assume that somehow his ability, once unleashed, cannot be controlled(range-wise or potency-wise) and directly tries to destroy someone's Force connections even if the practitioner does not want to apply its full power. Nihilus' drain is just like any other Force power. Luke can manipulate Yuuzhan Vong holes, but he can also use that power on a smaller scale with smaller effects.
[Nowhere does it say they intended to exile her as opposed to intending to kill her. They wanted to kill her but only succeeded in stripping her of her power so she fled.]
Even if an objective source states that they merely exiled her, not trying to kill her?
No, she fleeing is what you assume to support your argument. She couldn't escape if that was the case.
[That depends. The Force was ripped from her, but by her admission not entirely. That is, after all, how she regains her Force powers over time.]
Dude, you even played the game?
She was already rendered like a non-Force sensitive by them. So, no, she wouldn't be able to use the Force. The reason Kreia recovers her power is due to her Force bond she has with the Jedi Exile.
1. I assume that when Nihilus attacks the entire planet, he can't pick and choose who he wants to keep alive, no. He needed help just being able to harness Drain in the first place.
2. Objective sources state the outcome was exile, not the intent. Sion makes it clear that the intent was to kill. Once again, your rebuttal to that is "I don't like it, so I'll try and paint it as implausible and idiotic".
3. Not true. She had powers before their Bond ever manifested. And according to TCSWE, she sensed the Exile from across the galaxy in order to find her in the first place. She just regained her powers faster through her Bond with the Exile. And how does a Bond initiate between two non-Force sensitives?
What? Nihilus drains Kreia on-screen when he TK's her against the wall. How is that taking place off-screen?
No, that's just TK. If there's no Drain animation, then once again the Drain is off-screen, even if you believe it was used simultaneously (nothing says it is; he could've started draining once he had her against the wall and he probably did). Good to see that you agree it's Drain instead of Sever Force though.
Anyway, as I said before this is tiring and not productive in the slightest. I'm offering the chance to agree to disagree as I'm not going to be persuaded by your pestering and I'm sure I'm not going to succeed in persuading you either.
Originally posted by SunRazer
1. I assume that when Nihilus attacks the entire planet, he can't pick and choose who he wants to keep alive, no. He needed help just being able to harness Drain in the first place.
Umm, yeah, he can. That's how he spared one Miraluka from Katarr's fate. And that's how he never kills his zombie crew instantly. If what you say is true: when Nihilus unleashed his Force drain on Kreia he would have drained all the Trayus Academy or at least its Core. The fact that he is able to use it on one person shows that Nihilus has control over his Force drain power(length-wise and potency-wise). That's why even on his Ravager, when he unleashes his drain, he only unleashes it on the Jedi Exile, not the entire party. Is that clear enough to you?
2. Objective sources state the outcome was exile, not the intent. Sion makes it clear that the intent was to kill. Once again, your rebuttal to that is "I don't like it, so I'll try and paint it as implausible and idiotic".
Don't you think the source or any other source would have stated if their intention was to kill her? All the sources state that they united against her and sent her in exile.
As I said, bring proof from the script that Nihilus tried anything on Kreia after they drained her. If there is not; then means they never intended to kill her.
And as I said before: those two statements of Sion on Harbinger about Kreia refer to her ability to survive even when (most of) the Force has been emptied within her.
He even makes a reference, to her inability to use properly the Force, by saying:
"I sense you, my Master. Faint, weak."
"After all that has happened, still you live. You are difficult to kill."
But you keep thinking that this has something to do with what happened on Malachor V. When it clearly does not.
3. Not true. She had powers before their Bond ever manifested. And according to TCSWE, she sensed the Exile from across the galaxy in order to find her in the first place. She just regained her powers faster through her Bond with the Exile. And how does a Bond initiate between two non-Force sensitives?
Fair enough, then. Even so, the implications of that source are that her 'power' began to slowly manifest after she has been exiled by the duo.
Also, The Exile is a Wound in the Force, not a non-Force sensitive. And in the game, if it ever happened to you, your party can achieve the ability of harnessing the Force. Also when something happens to Kreia, you also feel it. And the reverse happens too. So it is logical that when the Exile strengthened her Force connection by drawing the energy of dead, Kreia also increased/turned on her own. But fair enough: a source is a source.
No, that's just TK. If there's no Drain animation, then once again the Drain is off-screen, even if you believe it was used simultaneously (nothing says it is; he could've started draining once he had her against the wall and he probably did). Good to see that you agree it's Drain instead of Sever Force though.
Just because there is no animation that does not exclude the fact that he used Force drain on her. I agree because I thought it was a dark variant of Sever Force due to the lack of colorization. But given Nihilus' Force mastery with that ability it isn't unbelievable to me now.
The source clearly says that they turn against her: Nihilus drains her first, then Sion joins and does the same: then they exile her. There is no contradiction and there is no off-screen Force drain. Just because it has no artistic depiction in the cut-scene doesn't give you the 'right' to say that it happens off-screen. It was Force drain, but for some odd reasons it was not depicted. Maybe because the concept during the game was not created yet or it was a difficult task to depict it. on-screen.
Originally posted by SunRazer
No, I still think Nihilus spared her. After finding her unconscious body, he spared her instead of finishing her off. I just don't think he spared her from the onset, as evidence hasn't come my way to suggest that he did.
You're wrong, obviously, but I'm curious as to how you think she survived if not by him sparing her. The planet was utterly cleansed of life except for her. Is she just that kawaii desu?
Originally posted by Nephthys
You're wrong, obviously, but I'm curious as to how you think she survived if not by him sparing her. The planet was utterly cleansed of life except for her. Is she just that kawaii desu?
Nova cannot accept the fact that Nihilus has control over his Force drain and he can choose who dies when he drains them or he can just render them almost with no Force connections. The notion that Nihilus cannot control the range and the potency of it is just nonsense.
Originally posted by Nephthys
You're wrong, obviously, but I'm curious as to how you think she survived if not by him sparing her. The planet was utterly cleansed of life except for her. Is she just that kawaii desu?
I think a lapse in Nihilus' draining powers is a more realistic explanation for a random occurrence of survival than Nihilus picking her from afar out of a lottery of millions to be "the lucky one", yeah. He had no idea who any of the people were on the planet and he didn't care. Visas didn't know him, either. She didn't sense him until he attacked.
It makes more sense to me that he walks the surface of Katarr to see first-hand what he could do to a planet for the first time, and upon noticing Visas as a survivor, saw potential in her and took her in as a Shadow Hand (and to maker her "see", blah blah) rather than feeding on her as he was already sated by gorging on the entire planet. That makes more sense than him targeting a random out of millions to keep safe from his Drain, if he can even do that (which I doubt).
Originally posted by Freedon Nadd
Nova cannot accept the fact that Nihilus has control over his Force drain and he can choose who dies when he drains them or he can just render them almost with no Force connections. The notion that Nihilus cannot control the range and the potency of it is just nonsense.
None of your examples are comparable. Nihilus targeting one person isn't the same as targeting millions minus one person, lol. Likewise, Nihilus draining lots of people slowly with his aura is irrelevant to his actively draining people on a massive scale — you just conceded that to me before.
Not debating the rest as it's the same points again. We're obviously not understanding each other.
Originally posted by SunRazer
I think a lapse in Nihilus' draining powers is a more realistic explanation for a random occurrence of survival than Nihilus picking her from afar out of a lottery of millions to be "the lucky one", yeah. He had no idea who any of the people were on the planet and he didn't care. Visas didn't know him, either. She didn't sense him until he attacked.It makes more sense to me that he walks the surface of Katarr to see first-hand what he could do to a planet for the first time, and upon noticing Visas as a survivor, saw potential in her and took her in as a Shadow Hand (and to maker her "see", blah blah) rather than feeding on her as he was already sated by gorging on the entire planet. That makes more sense than him targeting a random out of millions to keep safe from his Drain, if he can even do that (which I doubt).
What kind of lapse? He got every other living thing on the planet, the attack was all-encompassing. And I don't understand why the idea of him picking a random person is so unlikely to you. Is there something suggesting he wouldn't do that?
Nihilus had reason to spare Visas. As she states in dialogue she can "see" things that he cannot. Miraluka can naturally sense things from across the galaxy and see the energy of stars, the growth of life etc. The idea that he just happened to fail to kill her and wander over to her when walking around is nonsensical. Why do you think that makes more sense than him wanting an apprentice that can see what he can't, who he could twist in order to validate his nihilistic worldview? Nothing in the game suggests a flaw in the technique that would allow Visas to survive. If there was Kreia would make a bigger deal out of her. Instead Kreia explicitly says Visas was spared by his attack, suggesting it was the last spark of feeling in him.