Darths Nihilus and Sion: Kill Kreya Myth Debunked

Originally posted by SunRazer
None of your examples are comparable. Nihilus targeting one person isn't the same as targeting millions minus one person, lol. Likewise, Nihilus draining lots of people slowly with his aura is irrelevant to his actively draining people on a massive scale — you just conceded that to me before.

Not debating the rest as it's the same points again. We're obviously not understanding each other.

I conceded to you that Nihilus could still drain those around him, albeit very slowly. It's still his Force drain; but it is passively used.
As I said before: Nihilus demonstrated his proeficiency with Force drain when he drained Kreia's Force connections and didn't kill her or when he attacked Katarr and saved one Miraluka from the 'attack' to be his apprentice. You know it's not like he is blasting planets with a huge ball of energy that shrouds the entire planet. Force drain is depicted as orange/yellow lightning bolts. and those lightning bolts can touch whatever the practitioner wants them to touch. That's why he could spare Visas Marr.

That means when Nihilus is ready to harvest a world: orange lightning bolts come out of his ship and 'attack' the planet.

And for the record, I understand your point. It's just that it is flawed. You cling on two lines that Sion said and fail to see the bigger picture despite multiple sources stated that they stripped her off her power and cast her aside.

Originally posted by Nephthys
What kind of lapse? He got every other living thing on the planet, the attack was all-encompassing. And I don't understand why the idea of him picking a random person is so unlikely to you. Is there something suggesting he wouldn't do that?

Nihilus had reason to spare Visas. As she states in dialogue she can "see" things that he cannot. Miraluka can naturally sense things from across the galaxy and see the energy of stars, the growth of life etc. The idea that he just happened to fail to kill her and wander over to her when walking around is nonsensical. Why do you think that makes more sense than him wanting an apprentice that can see what he can't, who he could twist in order to validate his nihilistic worldview? Nothing in the game suggests a flaw in the technique that would allow Visas to survive. If there was Kreia would make a bigger deal out of her. Instead Kreia explicitly says Visas was spared by his attack, suggesting it was the last spark of feeling in him.

A lapse of imperfection that meant one of the many millions on the planet didn't actually die, perhaps?

It's unlikely because that's an unprecedented or nearly unprecedented level of mastery and precision which goes against the Nihilus character who isn't exactly a paragon of Force mastery to begin with.

As for "having reason to spare Visas", he didn't know any of that from above the planet, when she was merely one among millions.

Originally posted by Freedon Nadd
I conceded to you that Nihilus could still drain those around him, albeit very slowly. It's still his Force drain; but it is passively used.
As I said before: Nihilus demonstrated his proeficiency with Force drain when he drained Kreia's Force connections and didn't kill her or when he attacked Katarr and saved one Miraluka from the 'attack' to be his apprentice. You know it's not like he is blasting planets with a huge ball of energy that shrouds the entire planet. Force drain is depicted as orange/yellow lightning bolts. and those lightning bolts can touch whatever the practitioner wants them to touch. That's why he could spare Visas Marr.

That means when Nihilus is ready to harvest a world: orange lightning bolts come out of his ship and 'attack' the planet.

And for the record, I understand your point. It's just that it is flawed. You cling on two lines that Sion said and fail to see the bigger picture despite multiple sources stated that they stripped her off her power and cast her aside.

The bigger picture where you've still not been able to show me that they intended to exile her, only that it was an outcome. There's a difference. Actus reus vs mens rea. As it stands, Sion's assertion that they tried to kill her is unchallenged.

It's funny, too, because early on you showed that you had no idea what the context of Sion's quotes were anyway and after I tried explaining them to you, you decided to completely make up things to suit your agenda while. Like, come on.

Anyway, as I said, I'm getting tired of going in circles with you. Agree to disagree. I'll probably bow out from here.

Even Kreia says Nihilus has mastered Force drain technique. You confuse his hunger for Force/life energy with his mastery over the technique.

["Sion's assertion that they tried to kill her is unchallenged."]

Nowhere does it say that he tried to kill her. If I told you that you are a person difficult to kill; does that mean I want to kill you? No, I just emphasise the fact that you are capable of surviving in the hardest conditions.
You cannot accept the fact that what Sion said on Harbinger was a reference to how to stay alive without the Force: a major or the most important theme of this video-game. He thought she'd die once she has lost her touch with the Force.

[As for "having reason to spare Visas", he didn't know any of that from above the planet, when she was merely one among millions.]

You do realize that Nihilus used the Force to see the planet's inhabitants? That's how he knew where to find Visas Marr in the first place.

Originally posted by Freedon Nadd
Even Kreia says Nihilus has mastered Force drain technique. You confuse his hunger for Force/life energy with his mastery over the technique.

Mastery and perfection are not the same. Imperfections in his mastery are not impossible. There are also different levels of mastery. According to Kreia, Nihilus has not quite reached the highest level. If you want to invalidate her as a source, we return to a state of utter ambiguity, so the notion that his mastery is perfect remains unsupported.

Originally posted by Freedon Nadd
[B]Nowhere does it say that he tried to kill her. If I told you that you are a person difficult to kill; does that mean I want to kill you? No, I just emphasise the fact that you are capable of surviving in the hardest conditions.

The Harbinger quote is ambiguous enough to allow for alternate interpretations, but not once the quote with Nihilus is considered, it's abundantly clear that Nihilus and Sion tried to kill her on Malachor V. As it stands, you continue to rely on incredulity and shifting narratives, as well as ignoring critical talking points on why Nihilus wouldn't bother restraining himself once it was time for Kreia to go.

[quote]You cannot accept the fact that what Sion said on Harbinger was a reference to how to stay alive without the Force: a major or the most important theme of this video-game. He thought she'd die once she has lost her touch with the Force.

Fact? Don't make me laugh. You didn't know what the context of the Sion's comment to Nihilus was at first, asked me, then created this "fact" by adjusting your interpretation of Sion's Harbinger quote and then chastised me for not agreeing. You've changed your narrative on this three times already.

You do realize that Nihilus used the Force to see the planet's inhabitants? That's how he knew where to find Visas Marr in the first place.

Of course he can see them. There's still no reason for distinguishing Visas from millions of other living Miraluka from afar. How he found Visas later was because she was the sole living entity on an otherwise dead world; that's not hard to find with his Force senses. Completely different contexts.

You'll find if you string together my narrative, there's no actual contradiction with any of the established facts on the case. You just disagree with my version of events because it concludes that Nihilus' drain isn't a perfect instakill, a preconceived notion you've subscribed to out of bias and emotive hype rather than actual fact (nowhere is it stated, while Kreia states the opposite).

Anyway, is there a reason you're not ignoring everything I say about agreeing to disagreeing? We both know these discussions aren't productive. If you're going to offer me more replies without giving me a good justification for continuing, I won't respond and you can take that how you will.

Then why did he get his own ironed ass on Katarr in the first place? 😆

As about Visas Marr. You know that Force-users do possess the ability to "see" people using the Force. Maybe he didn't choose Visas due to a specific reason. But it just happened that he picked her randomly from all of them. The lottery ticket.

[You just disagree with my version of events because it concludes that Nihilus' drain isn't a perfect instakill,]

It isn't that Nihilus' drain isn't instakill. It is that he mastered to perfection the technique and has control over its potency and range. That's how Kreia 'survived', that's how Visas survived.

[The Harbinger quote is ambiguous enough to allow for alternate interpretations, but not once the quote with Nihilus is considered, it's abundantly clear that Nihilus and Sion tried to kill her on Malachor V.]

And yet in that scene(when they drain her) that, you say, Sion refers to it on the Ravager in the cut content, it doesn't make sense because Sion is the one who delivers the fatal blow to Kreia, not Nihilus. 🙂
So it makes no sense.

As about your comment regarding his mastery over Force drain: Kreia explicitly stated that it was about Nihilus' power that-would-be soon rivaling the ancient Sith's; it didn't have anything to do with his Force mastery of Force drain.

Nihilus has shown that he can one-shot a world, he can one-shot only a person with Force drain if he wants to. Using your logic: When he attacks with Force drain(then he would be unleashing it all over the place even if he would want not to do it)
We can see that Nihilus has the control to direct his Force drain(especially when he tries his drain on Meetra but doesn't do the same to Visas and Canderous)