Exar Kun vs. Caedus

Originally posted by The Ellimist

Problems:

1. TFUII Vader << RotJ Vader

2. (Here's the kicker) That scene doesn't actually happen in the continuity.

Now, back to the scene that actually happens: stop deflecting and explain what Kun has done to compare. 👆

1.Endor DLC Vader IS RotJ Vader.

2.This isn't relevant. The power levels remain the same.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
And none of this scales to RotJ Sidious's lightning or Galen Marek's ISD busting, lol. Inducing mass rage in a city and one-shotting Nomi don't put Exar above Vader, later power growth or nah lmao

First of all, Vader not instantly dying isn't a feat, unless you're trying to argue that Vader can tank Sheev's lightning outright. Because I'd love it if you did.

Marek didn't actually destroy the ISD. He empowered a cannon that fires ore and the ore itself destroyed the ISD.

The point is that those feats and more, such as one-shotting Vodo from across the galaxy, are already approaching Vader tier. And yet this is nothing compared to what Kun can do after the Ulic duel.

Originally posted by The Ellimist

lol you tried to shift away from RotJ Sidious's lightning by invoking a non-canon cutscene, and now you're ignoring feats brought up in the sentences you're quoting with sophistic non-replies. Not sure if the irony is intentional...?

The lightning one-shotted him and you're claming it's a feat, which is why I'm not taking you seriously right now.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
I was trying to ask you to explain your claim, not restate it, lol.

Kun is confirmed to be > Pre-Novel Vitiate prior to major power growth. Post-Nathema Vitiate is confirmed to be > Nihilus in the Revan novel. That's the fact here.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
Hm? It is apart of the former continuity, I was agreeing with that. I was just saying instead of non-canon, it's in a separate continuity because it's still there, just in a different timeline compared to the current one.

Ah, gotcha.

Originally posted by AncientPower
1.Endor DLC Vader IS RotJ Vader.

2.This isn't relevant. The power levels remain the same.

😐 Lmfao what the hell are you talking about? It's a hypothetical scene in a hypothetical cut what-if with an unimaginable number of butterfly effects, it bears no relation to what actually happens in RotJ, which contradicts it.

First of all, Vader not instantly dying isn't a feat, unless you're trying to argue that Vader can tank Sheev's lightning outright. Because I'd love it if you did.

Uh, walking through lightning for an extended stretch of time is a feat, and even if the lightning killed him (it didn't) the point isn't that RotJ Vader > Palpatine, but rather that Vader > Kun. On what basis did you just declare any demonstration that doesn't involve tanking something with no damage can't be used to quantify anything?

Marek didn't actually destroy the ISD. He empowered a cannon that fires ore and the ore itself destroyed the ISD.

Yes, he supplies the needed energy, so it tells us a lot about the energy behind his lightning that Vader tanks on multiple occasions.

Spoiler:
It's far more energy than Kun, Odan or whoever ever deals with.

(We're talking about the TFUII feat, not the TFUI one)

The point is that those feats and more, such as one-shotting Vodo from across the galaxy, are already approaching Vader tier. And yet this is nothing compared to what Kun can do after the Ulic duel.

I keep asking you to explain how this stuff "approaches Vader tier" and you just respond by saying it does, lawl.

The lightning one-shotted him and you're claming it's a feat, which is why I'm not taking you seriously right now.

Given that even Yoda couldn't do this to a weaker Sidious's lightning, I'm taking it as a "feat", yes. You don't understand what "feat" means.

Kun is confirmed to be > Pre-Novel Vitiate prior to major power growth. Post-Nathema Vitiate is confirmed to be > Nihilus in the Revan novel. That's the fact here.

That still doesn't answer my question, ffs. You just repeated yourself, again.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
😐 Lmfao what the hell are you talking about? It's a hypothetical scene in a hypothetical cut what-if with an unimaginable number of butterfly effects, it bears no relation to [b]what actually happens in RotJ, which contradicts it.[/B]

Give me a reason to believe that a DLC with the sole premise of getting involved at Endor is going to drastically alter the power of Vader or Sheev?

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Uh, walking through lightning for an extended stretch of time is a feat, and even if the lightning killed him (it didn't) the point isn't that RotJ Vader > Palpatine, but rather that Vader > Kun. On what basis did you just declare any demonstration that doesn't involve tanking something with no damage can't be used to quantify anything?

Except that it had him on his deathbed and his life support systems were crippled. A single source claiming that the burst of Palpatine's death killed him doesn't negate that fact.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Yes, he supplies the needed energy, so it tells us a lot about the energy behind his lightning that Vader tanks on multiple occasions.

Spoiler:
It's far more energy than Kun, Odan or whoever ever deals with.

He went all out and was exhausted by the attempt. Not the same levels of power he was throwing at Vader. But no, it's not even close to a thermonuclear bomb, nevermind even a fraction of a single supernova wave.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
I keep asking you to explain how this stuff "approaches Vader tier" and you just respond by saying it does, lawl.

Or how about you provide feats suggesting he's easily beyond mass telepathic manipulation, one-shotting Vodo Siosk-Baas who is evidently > Thon, who could control the massive dark energies of Ambria whilst exhausted? Then we can get to the good stuff.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Given that even Yoda couldn't do this to a weaker Sidious's lightning, I'm taking it as a "feat", yes. You don't understand what "feat" means.

You mean a Yoda who was caught off-guard and otherwise was absorbing Sheev's lightning with unprepared Tutaminis until the collective energies BFR'd him?

Originally posted by The Ellimist

That still doesn't answer my question, ffs. You just repeated yourself, again.

You asked how it's an argument, unless you're genuinely brain dead the argument is obvious. Kun scales massively off of Vader.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Give me a reason to believe that a DLC with the sole premise of getting involved at Endor is going to drastically alter the power of Vader or Sheev?

Why would I prefer inventing canon policy about what-ifs over the actual events of RotJ which my feat comes from?

Except that it had him on his deathbed and his life support systems were crippled. A single source claiming that the burst of Palpatine's death killed him doesn't negate that fact.

Lmao so what if it's "one source"? It's a valid statement not contradicted by anything that doesn't even stretch one's credulity. I see you using factual claims made in "a single source" all the time, and I now see the desperation leaking out of your non-rebuttals. 👆

He went all out and was exhausted by the attempt. Not the same levels of power he was throwing at Vader.

I'm referring to the TFUII scene, where there's no evidence he's exhausted by the attempt, whereas he rage-shocks Vader for like a minute.

But no, it's not even close to a thermonuclear bomb,

Wrong. A single star destroyer can reduce a planet's surface to molten slag within hours (see: Base Delta Zeroes) and a shielded ISD can tank another star destroyer's fire for a decent amount of time. It's far more impressive than a thermonuclear bomb.

(You can also just look to Saxton's AotC: Incredible Cross Sections)

nevermind even a fraction of a single supernova wave.

It's far more impressive if you do the math (divide total energy by the surface area of a several-light hour radius sphere) or, more directly, if you just look at the intensity of the wave, which is far below the intensity needed to break a shielded ISD in half.

Or how about you provide feats suggesting he's easily beyond mass telepathic manipulation,

Even Bane scales above Kaan who can do that.

one-shotting Vodo Siosk-Baas who is evidently > Thon, who could control the massive dark energies of Ambria whilst exhausted?

Bane scales above that too, as I'm sure you are familiar with.

Then we can get to the good stuff.

Like where you think Exar could walk through RotJ Sidious's lightning? By all means.

You mean a Yoda who was caught off-guard and otherwise was absorbing Sheev's lightning with unprepared Tutaminis until the collective energies BFR'd him?

He wasn't walking through it, no.

You asked how it's an argument, unless you're genuinely brain dead the argument is obvious. Kun scales massively off of Vader.

And you still don't give a meaningful reply. How surprising.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Why would I prefer inventing canon policy about what-ifs over the actual events of RotJ which my feat comes from?

Is missing the point your forte?

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Lmao so what if it's "one source"? It's a valid statement not contradicted by anything that doesn't even stretch one's credulity. I see you using factual claims made in "a single source" all the time, and I now see the desperation leaking out of your non-rebuttals. 👆

One source contradicted by others. Good God, you're dense.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
I'm referring to the TFUII scene, where there's no evidence he's exhausted by the attempt, whereas he rage-shocks Vader for like a minute.

He's exhausted by powering the cannon. But thanks for agreeing.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Wrong. A single star destroyer can reduce a planet's surface to molten slag within hours (see: Base Delta Zeroes) and a shielded ISD can tank another star destroyer's fire for a decent amount of time. It's far more impressive than a thermonuclear bomb.

(You can also just look to Saxton's AotC: Incredible Cross Sections)

Firstly, it's a fleet that can do so in hours. A single SD takes a day.

Secondly, it's almost as if the shield wasn't up because it was undergoing repair.

Thirdly, you're equating two completely different weapons.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
It's far more impressive if you do the math (divide total energy by the surface area of a several-light hour radius sphere) or, more directly, if you just look at the intensity of the wave, which is far below the intensity needed to break a shielded ISD in half.

A canonically less devastating event incinerated an entire fleet casually. But you're still not accounting for the maths nor the fact that the waves were heading straight for Ossus. Nor was the Star Destroyer shielded, it was undergoing repair.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Even Bane scales above Kaan who can do that.

Kaan manipulated his own followers, Ommin with his first real expression of dark side power turned a city of millions into murderous psychopaths and with utter ease.

Again, this is amateur hour sh!t for pre-Cinnagar Kun.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Bane scales above that too, as I'm sure you are familiar with.

You mean when Zannah amped herself with sufficient energy from Lake Natth to rvpe Bane with tentacles? Again, not even remotely the most impressive thing Kun has prior to fighting Ulic.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Like where you think Exar could walk through RotJ Sidious's lightning? By all means.

Exar could, yes. Like about twenty others could. Because it's not this monumental feat like you're portraying it as.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
He wasn't walking through it, no.

No, he was absorbing it and had Sheev panicking before the explosion.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
And you still don't give a meaningful reply. How surprising.

Oh sweetie, I'm just getting started. As soon as you drop the charade that Vader has this immense durability feat, we can get started.

Wasn't RotJ Sidious' Force Lightning what destroyed the Death Star II?

Originally posted by AncientPower
The Vader and Sheev seen in the Endor DLC would be no different than the ones we see in ROTJ.

You might want to consider shutting the fvck up.

holy shit.

mad.

Conversing with Kbro is about as useful as debating LeGenD.

Is missing the point your forte?

OK, we're done here. If you aren't actually going to respond to arguments in any meaningful way, I'll just sit back and let your argumentation continue to drag down the TOR brigade. 👆

Concession accepted. 👆

(A phrase Ant will be repeating soon.)

Are you kidding me? You literally ignored everybody telling you for the last hour that cutscenes from non canon DLC's don't constitute evidence ignored ACTUAL evidence in favor of your own opinion and then willfully plugged your ears when you were told that you don't understand basic math. And you have the gall to accuse someone else of missing the point? I don't think I've ever seen someone as utterly hypocritical or retarded as yourself. Holy shit.

Ell always concedes. Without Azronger the guy just folds like a cheap suit.

Originally posted by Naugrim
Are you kidding me? You literally ignored everybody telling you for the last hour that cutscenes from non canon DLC's don't constitute evidence ignored ACTUAL evidence in favor of your own opinion and then willfully plugged your ears when you were told that you don't understand basic math. And you have the gall to accuse someone else of missing the point? I don't think I've ever seen someone as utterly hypocritical or retarded as yourself. Holy shit.

Even if you ignore Vader getting one-shotted in the DLC, numerous sources state Vader is fatally wounded by Sheev's lightning.

Basic math states that Starkiller charging a weapon to burst through the hull of an unshielded star destroyer doesn't equate to what was factually stated to be the most destructive event the galaxy ever had.

Now go back to irrelevancy sock.

And by the way you ****ing idiot. He's not referring to the ore cannon in TFU he's referring to the Star Destroyer that engaged the Salvation in TFUII. The sad ****ing part is I don't know if you were pretending not to know because you refused to address the point or if it was just out of sheer incompetence.

He's using the ore cannon scene to wank Vader getting immobilised by Starkiller in the end of TFU II. What are you high on?

Holy shit. For my sanity, I'm just going to assume it's incompetence at this point. He's not referring to the ORE CANNON. He's referring to the Salvation's canon which he charged with his own energies.

My bad then, but I'm glad to see how infuriated you are. Please continue amusing me.