1/18/2018 - #6A (Ranking SIX, Round ONE) - Most Powerful Tournament - VOTE!

Originally posted by LordOfTheLight
How do turbolasers react to Dovin basals?

I think sufficiently strong basals can arc them, but those are literal miniature singularities. The difference here is that Luke and Kyp moved those around with intense effort while UnuThul is constantly arcing away entire barrages designed to take out capital ships in the middle of a space battle.

I was talking more on the lines of comparing their damage output. I get that they are lightspeed weapons, but they obviously have a firm upper limit. Which, I havent seen to be planetary or anything yet ( Dovin basals are). Excuse me for I havent really gone into the technological aspects of SW.

There are incredibly high firepower figures for capital ships that remain controversial (e.g. that a star destroyer can turn a planetary surface to molten slag within hours), but that isn't really relevant here because the issue is moving the turbolasers, not tanking or powering them.

IIRC the ROTS novel has singular turbolaser shots destroying entire villages. Or something like that anyways.

It was small towns.

The order is already ****ing retarded, so just pick one and pretend I voted for it.

Mace Windu

Ell, not sure why you cited UnuThul supposedly dominating Luke when know full power Luke just dominated him right back, since, you know, it actually happened? Not really a genuine feat, no.

Originally posted by Azronger
Ell, not sure why you cited UnuThul supposedly dominating Luke when know full power Luke just dominated him right back, since, you know, it actually happened? Not really a genuine feat, no.

The two events happening aren't mutually exclusive - I think the text makes it pretty clear that Luke was struggling against his TP.

Um, they kinda are mutually exclusive... 😬

He fears he'll get overwhelmed and then receives support from Leia, Mara, etc. Granted he was taken by surprise, but he was also getting external aid sooo...

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
The order is already ****ing retarded, so just pick one and pretend I voted for it.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Mace being able to stalemate RotS Sheev was because he was fighting RotS Sheev. Assuming he carries that power with him into every fight (peak mental state or not) is a mistake as again, his abilities are almost entirely relative to the dark sider he is fighting.

Not that raw power translates remotely into the scope of Palpatine's abilities regardless.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Is UnuThul a darksider?

Ant, I changed my vote to unuthul

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
Circumstances for Mace matching Sids do not exempt Mace from being able to compete with him which all evidence suggests he can.

It depends on what you mean by "compete" - Mace was getting outmatched pretty clearly at the beginning of the fight. Here "compete" would just mean "not get killed immediately".

Regardless, I do buy that Mace Windu by that powerscaling + vaapad + superconducting loop + shatterpoint can defeat Valkorion - the only potential issue is how much of Windu's power you think is dependent on "building up" vaapad.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
Uh, it is who the best combatant is.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
It depends on what you mean by "compete" - Mace was getting outmatched pretty clearly at the beginning of the fight.

The notion there's a great disparity between the two without vapaad is both heavily contradicted and unsupported.

The idea Mace is close is further supported by favorable comparisons to Yoda who sources have even called him > than. I realize this is a minority, but given you've argued among similar lines to defend the claim that Sidious and Anakin are close, I think you'd agree with me that there being evidence present for Mace suggests Mace is close to Yoda/Sidious.

Originally posted by LordOfTheLight
Well, we dont need to assume that because even under base power Mace has been repeatedly stated to be on Yoda's level.

My take on it is as such- A force user cannot channelize more power than his potential would dictate. The same would apply to Mace even with his Vaapad. If he is functioning higher than his base power, it simply means he is channelizing more of his potential power via mastery of Vaapad (it being the channel for darkness and all, and bringing him to the "exact" level of Sidious), because as ROTS makes clear, Vaapad is more than just a lightsaber form. We see what happens when force users channelize power close to their potential, for example Obi Wan in Lone Wolf when he ran faster than any Jedi or Sith had in history( under desperate circumstances), felt his entire essence unravelling and his atoms flying apart. Obviously nothing of the sort happens to Mace. Which indicates that he was far from channelizing power close to his potential.

...he had time only to slip back into Vaapad and angle his blade to catch the forking arcs of pure, dazzling hatred that clawed toward him. Because Vaapad is more than a fighting style. It is a state of mind: a channel for darkness. Power passed into him and out again without touching him. And the circuit completed itself: the lightning reflected back to its source.

Regardless this isn't particularly relevant, as it still doesn't preclude him needing an external source (i.e. Sheev) it "charge" himself up in the first place, in which case, his power is still relevant to his opponent.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Sure he is. Some one should really raise these sources so they can be put under proper scrutiny. As per Dark Rendevous he's Dooku level [b]at best.[/B]

All evidence suggests Mace is close to Sidious. and none suggests otherwise. So we would logically go with the former rather than the latter.

Right and the Fact Files quotes are as of AotC, before the war, as I recall and have pointed out previously. Now is someone going to provide them or?

And as we know Windu borders on 9 and can compete with Sids because of Vaapad - this proves nothing in regards to his base potential.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
[B

Which is why Vaapad transforms him into a highly effective superconductor, or rather makes him able to channel immense amounts of Force with zero resistance. Without that ability then yes, I would assume the energy would annihilate him. Fyi, the RotS novel goes as far as to say that the dark side energy doesn't even touch him when passing in and out of his body:Again, he's become a superconductor.

Regardless this isn't particularly relevant, as it still doesn't preclude him needing an external source (i.e. Sheev) it "charge" himself up in the first place, in which case, his power is still relevant to his opponent. [/B]

As per DR Dooku is also the Jedi Order's most gifted apprentice. I needn't point out that this is blatantly false.

Even as of ROTS sources have him nearly equal go Yoda in power. Mace being equal to Yoda isn't by Vaapad at all(which is never even mentioned in these sources), it is stated across many timelines, not just ROTS.

Your statement about the power "not touching" him is in regards to Palpatine's lightning not touching him, not that the power he channelizes is somehow independent of his capacity. A simple refutation is in order when we clearly see that Mace is strained by deflecting Palpatine's lightning. There is no zero resistance at all, he is simply channeling more power from his potential reserves than he does under base conditions. He charges his own power and unleashes it in a matter of seconds, Vaapad merely creates the perfect channel for it. Which is applicable for anyone, not just Palpatine.

Before I forget, there is also him deflecting Sidious's force blast, when both not in Vaapad and when distracted. This merely adds topping to the cake. All said and done, there is the vast majority of evidence putting him, even at base level, in the tier of Yoda/Sidious.

Originally posted by LordOfTheLight
Before I forget, there is also him deflecting Sidious's force blast, when both not in Vaapad and when distracted. This merely adds topping to the cake.

He, somewhat countered the push, he didn't outright deflect it.