The Leftist Fascists WAR on the Family and Children.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Fair enough on the eShitting, we're debating a topic we disagree on, I expect you to disagree with me.

My view on abortion is independent of my view on religion. I don't cite any higher authority or Biblical text for my stances and honestly don't really think to God or the Bible as the basis to my position. I'm in a couple circles with friends who are atheists that feel exactly the same way, so I don't think I'd suddenly become pro-choice if I lost my faith in God. I don't think it's fair to attribute my stance to religious motivations if that makes sense.

DMB, the best way to lower abortion rates is to lower the amount of unwanted pregnancies. This is a fact. PP does this.

If you disagree with the method above, what do you believe is the best way?

Originally posted by Robtard
DMB, the best way to lower abortion rates is to lower the amount of unwanted pregnancies. This is a fact. PP does this.

If you disagree with the method above, what do you believe is the best way?

One of my suggestions was turning off all reproduction in humans and requiring a license to turn it back on. Similar to some dystopian Sci-Fi concepts.

Obvious, that's partially in jest but that's the only way, that I know of, that would be very close to stopping almost all unnecessary abortions.

Originally posted by lazybones
Making abortions illegal does not significantly decrease their frequency. They just move from the legal sphere to back alley operations. We know this because Mexico, which bans abortions in most of the country, was found in a study to have an abortion rate 40% higher than the US. Here's an interesting article reporting on some official findings on the subject:

https://www.guttmacher.org/news-release/2009/despite-being-largely-illegal-abortion-mexico-far-more-prevalent-united-states

The author of the study then goes on to explain that the disparity is to do with the USA's broader access to family planning and contraceptive services, which are some of the most crucial aspects of Planned Parenthood. Fund Planned Parenthood and those services, reduce abortion. Making abortion illegal and defunding the PP just puts lives at risk. Again, we can look at Mexico:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3673241/

Also planned parenthood isn't the only organization through which you can get access to these things, and I'm not saying ban abortion and defund Planned Parenthood.

If abortion was illegal and PP couldn't perform abortions, AND if planned parenthood wasn't donating millions of dollars to democrat political campaigns I wouldn't have that impetus to defund them. I don't think any organization donating millions of dollars to partisan political campaigns should get handouts from the taxpayer. If an organization wants to get handouts from the taxpayer they shouldn't then donate money to political candidates.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Obvious, that's partially in jest

You had me worried there for a moment my friend.

Originally posted by Naugrim
You had me worried there for a moment my friend.

Thanks for letting me know.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Okay. Then just one is good enough for me. We done? 🙂

Also, you typed a lot for nothing. You should cut your point down to just one sentence or 3 at the most. You can google everything you want on this. We agree on the premise. Everything else is a waste of time to discuss.

Originally posted by dadudemon
So, you tell me? How many illegal and unlicensed abortions is at a high enough ratio to legal abortions before you consider, "Well, okay...we need to get abortions made legal and regulated and fund contraceptives and education."?

Edit: And again, I'm fine with contraceptives and sex ed

Originally posted by dadudemon
Tell me where your douchebaggery ends and your kindness begins. My douchebaggery on this topic ends at the first trimester. After that, no abortions.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Thanks for letting me know.

You're welcome my friend.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
I'm not researching your argument for you.

Yes you will if you really want your argument, that I did not make or agree to engage in, to be addressed.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
At the very least to the point where the total number of mothers and unborn children die from back alley abortions is greater than the number of unborn children who currently die from abortion.

Why? Why do I want to make that argument? This is a red herring. I don't want to talk about that nor was that my point. That's your point. If you want that as your point, great, google it and research it and then argue with yourself about it.

But if you want to research my actual point, I can help you and I intend this in the most extreme of condescending ways (I mean it as insultingly as possibly towards you and I have 0 kind intentions in doing this, just to be clear):

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=how+many+women+die+from+illegal+abortions

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Either at conception or gastrulation (2 weeks) I'm a bit conflicted there. And as previously mentioned I have no stance on rape abortion since neither stance satisfies my conscience, and medical danger to the mother's life is a perfectly valid defense for abortion.

I once held that stance. But it's just not possible to hold women to that standard as most don't even know they are pregnant until well after that point. They will get illegal abortions if it is only at 2 weeks.

And, no, I do not have data on that. But find me a single woman who knows for sure that they are pregnant at even 1 week.

Originally posted by Robtard
DMB, the best way to lower abortion rates is to lower the amount of unwanted pregnancies. This is a fact. PP does this.

If you disagree with the method above, what do you believe is the best way?

I'm also completely in support of proper comprehensive sex-ed in schools, I'm not one of those dipshits whose like "teachin people to have safe sex is the path to Satan" or whatever.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Yes you will if you really want your argument, that I did not make or agree to engage in, to be addressed.

Why? Why do I want to make that argument? This is a red herring. I don't want to talk about that nor was that my point. That's your point. If you want that as your point, great, google it and research it and then argue with yourself about it.

But if you want to research my actual point, I can help you and I intend this in the most extreme of condescending ways (I mean it as insultingly as possibly towards you and I have 0 kind intentions in doing this, just to be clear):

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=how+many+women+die+from+illegal+abortions

I'm sick AF right now, need a shower, haven't eaten today, have class in two hours, and have been arguing with multiple people in this thread for the past couple hours.

I'm signing off for now.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
And condoms for example aren't very expensive.

And they suck. Not all use them or will ever use them. No matter how much education you give them.

And they still cost money. When you're poor and horny (humans are very sexual...no matter what, they will still squish their genitals together), you're not too concerned about spending money on contraceptives.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
I'm also completely in support of proper comprehensive sex-ed in schools, I'm not one of those dipshits whose like "teachin people to have safe sex is the path to Satan" or whatever.

That's great. It's demonstrably provable to prevent more unwanted pregnancies. I'm all about preventing abortions.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Again though, your argument and premise is completely unconvincing to me without the answer to the question I'm interested.

But, I just don't care about your question as I think it is unnecessary from my bottom-line to take my stance. Remember, I put my limit at a single dead woman getting an illegal abortion.

My line is already crossed. So why should I care about your line? It's not mine. It's yours. You agree with my premise, anyway. So what are we even arguing about?

Originally posted by Emperordmb
If you're not interested in arguing that point, then your argument isn't shifting my position.

Again, I don't want to. I will not try to convince you of it. I am not interesting in doing so. There's nothing left to my argument. If you're not convinced of it, there's no point to continue especially to try to force me to argue your point: not going to happen. If you're not convinced that a single dead woman, due to an illegal abortion, is bad, then there's no point to continue because that's already my bottom line.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
I'm sick AF right now, need a shower, haven't eaten today, have class in two hours, and have been arguing with multiple people in this thread for the past couple hours.

I'm signing off for now.

Have fun and get well, soon. Try not to get sicker by pushing yourself too hard.

Oh Feetal's Gizz... Almost 4 pages already? It only had 3 repsones for almost two days and then I wake up to THIS!?

Fuhhh.. Now I gotta Read all this crap. |
|
Well Lefty Fascist Crap to see how much the thread has been derailed anyway...

Originally posted by -Pr-
Please leave Ireland out of your weird agenda.

Also, that video is biased as ****.

This actually explains a lot.

Another Irish poster on a wrestling board was on pretty good terms with me, until we got to abortion. Taking the "pro life" stance seemed to put me on his shitlist.

I guess I stumbled into a pretty personal topic, between that and the fact in recent history, some people actually died from being denied an abortion (Which I also didn't know at the time)

Originally posted by cdtm
This actually explains a lot.

Another Irish poster on a wrestling board was on pretty good terms with me, until we got to abortion. Taking the "pro life" stance seemed to put me on his shitlist.

I guess I stumbled into a pretty personal topic, between that and the fact in recent history, some people actually died from being denied an abortion (Which I also didn't know at the time)

I don't think people should be forced to go through with a pregnancy if it presents a danger to their health.

Thing is though, getting abortions because there is a physical danger are very very rare. As abortions due to rape. Most of the time it's just due to being irresponsible.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Please leave Ireland out of your weird agenda.

Also, that video is biased as ****.

The video touch's on who's pushing anti-abortion agendas.l

You said you're in PR, didn't you?

...and just noticed your name is Pr, but I digress... 🙂

I find myself often wondering how we get to where we are in political discourse. Take gay marriage.. The support wasn't nearly as universal a short time ago. As early as 2001 or so, I was the one defending people's right to marry, on the basis I believed people should have the right to do what makes them happy, as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else.

Now, it seems everyone supports gay marriage. In many cases, vehemently.

Polls reflect this.. In only a few decades, we went from something like a quarter of people supporting same sex marriage, to a majority.

And yes, some of this will be due to changing demographics, kids coming of age and such, but there's no way a change that big will happen in such a short time unless a lot of people changed their minds, or a lot of people dropped dead.

So, more likely they were swayed. I don't know what convinced them, but it's mind boggling to me that a marketing campaign over a mere two decades can be THAT effective.

But I'm also wondering, what if they decided to market the opposite way, No gay marriage for anyone!

Or, maybe market for killing the gays.

Just how effective is this shit? How impressionable are people? I mean, my base views of abortion were formed back in my early school days, because of a very personal feeling that makes up the core of my ethics, which is based on my personality (In dirty terms, I usually think "If that were me..."😉

Seems to me, most other people spout off talking points. Points they got from somewhere else, or someone else. And I can't help but wonder if years of psychology and think tanks have created the most sophisticated propaganda machine on this planet, and if almost all of our politics, from the news to Twitter flame wars, are exactly what someone, somewhere, wanted them to be.

Originally posted by cdtm
This actually explains a lot.

Another Irish poster on a wrestling board was on pretty good terms with me, until we got to abortion. Taking the "pro life" stance seemed to put me on his shitlist.

I guess I stumbled into a pretty personal topic, between that and the fact in recent history, some people actually died from being denied an abortion (Which I also didn't know at the time)

I can't speak for anyone else, but I wouldn't give anyone shit purely for being pro-life. My only issue is when anyone who does it uses their opinion to hurt others.

Originally posted by cdtm
The video touch's on who's pushing anti-abortion agendas.l

You said you're in PR, didn't you?

...and just noticed your name is Pr, but I digress... 🙂

I find myself often wondering how we get to where we are in political discourse. Take gay marriage.. The support wasn't nearly as universal a short time ago. As early as 2001 or so, I was the one defending people's right to marry, on the basis I believed people should have the right to do what makes them happy, as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else.

Now, it seems everyone supports gay marriage. In many cases, vehemently.

Polls reflect this.. In only a few decades, we went from something like a quarter of people supporting same sex marriage, to a majority.

And yes, some of this will be due to changing demographics, kids coming of age and such, but there's no way a change that big will happen in such a short time unless a lot of people changed their minds, or a lot of people dropped dead.

So, more likely they were swayed. I don't know what convinced them, but it's mind boggling to me that a marketing campaign over a mere two decades can be THAT effective.

But I'm also wondering, what if they decided to market the opposite way, No gay marriage for anyone!

Or, maybe market for killing the gays.

Just how effective is this shit? How impressionable are people? I mean, my base views of abortion were formed back in my early school days, because of a very personal feeling that makes up the core of my ethics, which is based on my personality (In dirty terms, I usually think "If that were me..."😉

Seems to me, most other people spout off talking points. Points they got from somewhere else, or someone else. And I can't help but wonder if years of psychology and think tanks have created the most sophisticated propaganda machine on this planet, and if almost all of our politics, from the news to Twitter flame wars, are exactly what someone, somewhere, wanted them to be.

I'm in IT. I wouldn't be able to be in PR, as that's the kind of job that deals with people too much.

It did feel like a very quick shift, aye.

Whatever your opinion, even if it's different from mine, the guy in the video is being woefully biased.

Its always fun to watch Leftists come up with ways to DEVALUE Human life while trying to make it look like they actually value it.