Zod vs Count Nefaria

Originally posted by panthergod
nonsense.

Superman was fighting a physically weaker hero and was npwhere near going for the wkill, which is what necessitates accessing his full power art that point.
Further, Nefaria NEVER fought a group as physically formidable as the one that beat down an already injured holding back Superman.

nice try though.

Originally posted by JBL
A injured holding back superman????? Who told you that????? Lmao!!! If you believe that mental block crap, then I don't know what to tell you. How the hell does superman put mental blocks on himself and then cannot access his full power yet gets tired and beaten by threats that want to destroy everything???? That's stupid!!! That's like me locking my car door and throwing away the key while a bear is coming to maul me or getting a combination lock and then forget the combination to open my safe to face the 2 burglars that have bats. And the sad part is... I knew that bear and burglars were comming. Some protector of earth he is right??? Nope, you try again.

You seem to think that this concept is debatable.

It isn't.

Comics are comics. Deal with it. He also doesn't use FTL speed all the time either. He could have oneshotted Thor. Busiek himself later established that he never even knew the limits of his HV, and that he suppressed his stats for a year subconsciously due to his dynamic factor. He wasn't trying to kill a opponent he knows is weaker than him. Which at that point was the criteria for him going all out. See OWAW. So right there.. Yeah he held back. Period. I don't care that you aren't bright enough to grasp genre conventions and character traits established for decades. This is an ability he's had since 1961.

Oh and btw.. He won.

Originally posted by JBL
That's like me locking my car door and throwing away the key while a bear is coming to maul me or getting a combination lock and then forget the combination to open my safe to face the 2 burglars that have bats. And the sad part is... I knew that bear and burglars were comming.

I can EASILY see you doing either of those. Both if you somehow survived the first.

Originally posted by riv6672
No i havent, but like i said, his original arc is where he was, imo, at his best. This was him as originally intended, before multiple writers got their hands on him, powered him up and down and sideways.
And, in that original arc, he was a pussy.

and in a later arc he....wasn't and was easily crushing a huge avengers line-up. not sure how your definition represents him at his best then, when that original appearance simply was NOT him at his best. you're disregarding his gained experience, the fact that he got smarter and more confident. weird way to paint a picture of a character at their best. /shrug

Originally posted by leonidas
and in a later arc he....wasn't and was easily crushing a huge avengers line-up. not sure how your definition represents him at his best then, when that original appearance simply was NOT him at his best. you're disregarding his gained experience, the fact that he got smarter and more confident. weird way to paint a picture of a character at their best. /shrug

And in an even LATER arc:

😛

Henshaw would beat Nefaria.

Yet Zod owned him.

The speed blitz is still available too.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
Henshaw would beat Nefaria.

Yet Zod owned him.

The speed blitz is still available too.

Zod sucker punched him.

It was a good shot, but CS's strength has never really been in the physical.

Imagine if he hand lasered Zod from behind, or unexpectedly from the front. Bet he wouldn't shake it off. (For what it's worth, Henshaw was also part of the team that took down Zod in that same issue, next to Eradicator and the Suicide Squad.)

Originally posted by leonidas
and in a later arc he....wasn't and was easily crushing a huge avengers line-up. not sure how your definition represents him at his best then, when that original appearance simply was NOT him at his best. you're disregarding his gained experience, the fact that he got smarter and more confident. weird way to paint a picture of a character at their best. /shrug

Originally posted by panthergod
You seem to think that this concept is debatable.

It isn't.

Comics are comics. Deal with it. He also doesn't use FTL speed all the time either. He could have oneshotted Thor. Busiek himself later established that he never even knew the limits of his HV, and that he suppressed his stats for a year subconsciously due to his dynamic factor. He wasn't trying to kill a opponent he knows is weaker than him. Which at that point was the criteria for him going all out. See OWAW. So right there.. Yeah he held back. Period. I don't care that you aren't bright enough to grasp genre conventions and character traits established for decades. This is an ability he's had since 1961.

Oh and btw.. He won.

Nef wins and since low showings is being posted, can someone post those scans of bullets affecting Zod?

Originally posted by JBL
False. None of what you say is true. Mongul Jr already explained what he taught superman in owaw. Superman suppresses his powers to keep from hurting or killing humans or far weaker opponents. Out of his on mouth when fighting black Adam. Or do mental blocks keep you from knowing that he had no such concernes when he was mad as hell and admitted he went all out against BA??? Why didn't he drop his mental blocks to win the arm wrestling match against CM? Why in Owaw when he needed to get stronger, he sun amped? It's an excuse in case he gets beaten right?? Then you can fall back on he didn't have access to his full power because he put locks on his powers and threw away the key even though his friends and humans are being killed around him right??? Don't think so.

Against original post crisis Bizarro Superman, he claimed he was "trying" to hit him with everything he has... ..but was subconsciously pulling his punch's.

This was established by Byrne, and confirmed by several prominent writers over the years (Jurgen's, Casey, Busiek).

Bottom line, it takes very special circumstances for him to really "cut loose", even against someone who can take it.

The Mongul training and his mental blocks... ehh, I'm not sure I believe he really "broke" them. All out against probes is one thing. Against the living, that's something else.

Zod, otoh..

Originally posted by JBL
False. None of what you say is true. Mongul Jr already explained what he taught superman in owaw. Superman suppresses his powers to keep from hurting or killing humans or far weaker opponents. Out of his on mouth when fighting black Adam. Or do mental blocks keep you from knowing that he had no such concernes when he was mad as hell and admitted he went all out against BA??? Why didn't he drop his mental blocks to win the arm wrestling match against CM? Why in Owaw when he needed to get stronger, he sun amped? It's an excuse in case he gets beaten right?? Then you can fall back on he didn't have access to his full power because he put locks on his powers and threw away the key even though his friends and humans are being killed around him right??? Don't think so.

Then, for starters, explain why during the training with Mongul, Superman straight up said he felt his powers surge.

Then explain why he went from struggling with an Imperiex Probe to casually taking them out, and the writer intent was clear that the Probes were just as powerful as before but he's different now(which the writer corroborated in an interview, for what it's worth).

Then explain UP, UP AND AWAY where his powers made clear jumps in level.

I know you won't though.

Originally posted by cdtm
And in an even LATER arc:

😛

why i otta.... chair

not saying zod can't win of course. saying cn has the feats to beat him. i know currently zod is nuts with his feats, but looking overall? this is really close. as was mentioned--not sure i see zod palming a po'd strike from thor with the hammer. could likely go either way imo.

Originally posted by riv6672
I'm not saying he cant team wreck. I'm saying he doesnt handle it well when the tables turn.

and i'm saying he didn't have that liability later on when he became more confident in his abilities. THAT would be him at his best.

At their best seems to have become Zod at his best and Nefaria at his worst. At Nefaria's worst, a top tier would be able to one shot him. At Zod"s worst, Superman is wrecking him and several other Kryptonians at the same time lol.

Zod stalk is only rising. He just took down God of Will Hal. He wins

The Count took a hammer shot from Thor like nothing at his best. Could Zod? IDK?

Originally posted by panthergod
Yeah..

Zod beat Rebirth Hal.

That's FAR more impressive than anything Nefaria has ever done.

With what the crazy things Hal has done in the past few years, I say that is accurate. However, we know Hal will win in the end. It just might take a few more Lanterns (John, Guy, etc...)

Originally posted by leonidas
why i otta.... chair

not saying zod can't win of course. saying cn has the feats to beat him. i know currently zod is nuts with his feats, but looking overall? this is really close. as was mentioned--not sure i see zod palming a po'd strike from thor with the hammer. could likely go either way imo.

Big picture wise, Zod has always been kind of pathetic 1 vs 1.

Even back in the pre crisis era, Faora was literally slapping him aside like a red headed step child every time he tried to assert his authority. (Yeah, she had martial arts skill, but he still just took it like a chump.)

Post crisis, he gets strangled to death by his own soldier, Non, before the Green K can take him. About as sad a villian death as any.

Originally posted by Zack M
Zod stalk is only rising. He just took down God of Will Hal. He wins

Sounds like it's your stalk that's rising