Jiren vs Beerus

Goku was not “handling” Toppo in SSJG, they were stalemating, and we have no idea if Toppo was going all-out either. Him being able to dodge MSSJB is sort of indicative of that very notion. 🙂

Eh, SSG could pretty easily dodge attacks from Rose, which is stronger than SSB.

He was doing just fine against Toppo is what I meant as ssg. And Toppo basically even admits it's cause Goku let his guard down that Goku lost. There isn't anything suggesting Toppo was holding back. Goku basically went for a huge punch to just knock Toppo off thinking nothing of defense and was caught off guard. And unlike the anime, Goku paid the price for letting his guard down against a skilled warrior.

What is MSSJB?

"Mastered Super Saiyan Blue."

In the manga, from the Revival of F arc to the Future Trunks arc, SSB was portrayed a flawed transformation; the transition itself was explosive and heavily draining, and once activated, the form rapidly leaked a significant fraction of the energy it produced. However, currently, Goku and Vegeta seem to have trained to ease into the initial transformation, and now properly bottle their ki to utilize their full strength for extended periods of time (although this pent up energy still puts a strain on their bodies).

Originally posted by Dark-Kenshin
I suspect there's a reason they have deliberately avoided making any direct statements about how Jiren compares to Beerus specifically.

I agree. It's almost too blatant now that there's been no comment by Beerus or Whis on how Jiren stacks against Beerus.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Eh, SSG could pretty easily dodge attacks from Rose, which is stronger than SSB.

Scans?

Vegeta was able to get the upper hand on Black by fighting in SSG and only powering up to Blue at the moment of attack. Do you really need me to look for panels of him specifically dodging attacks to understand the implications of that?

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Vegeta was able to get the upper hand on Black by fighting in SSG and only powering up to Blue at the moment of attack. Do you really need me to look for panels of him specifically dodging attacks to understand the implications of that?

Here's the entire scene:
https://i.imgur.com/4xqxpcA.png
https://i.imgur.com/9PZ6UIZ.png
https://i.imgur.com/XGCdHrV.png
https://i.imgur.com/8hjo2MB.png
https://i.imgur.com/fhFkCnk.png
https://i.imgur.com/tmS50r1.png
https://i.imgur.com/D9CIwvT.png
https://i.imgur.com/IA9NWX3.png
https://i.imgur.com/r6ul3xO.png
https://i.imgur.com/56kHJ0S.png
https://i.imgur.com/DsCI1Xr.png

...But this page sums it up nicely:

Originally posted by Damborgson
I agree. It's almost too blatant now that there's been no comment by Beerus or Whis on how Jiren stacks against Beerus.

SSGod Goku fought on par with Beerus. Why is it hard to assume Goku and Jiren have surpassed Beerus?

Originally posted by Blindside12
SSGod Goku fought on par with Beerus. Why is it hard to assume Goku and Jiren have surpassed Beerus?

Originally posted by Blindside12
SSGod Goku fought on par with Beerus.

We know this because Beerus casually one-shot-ragdolled MSSB Vegeta when he got a little irritated:
https://i.imgur.com/9snd40r.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/2aPoa4F.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/wNRMm7W.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/UqI0qee.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/C3geaI8.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/vkgY5vP.jpg
Vegeta: "I'm no match for him AT ALL."

ie. Beerus >>>>> MSSB >> SSB >>> full-power SSG > n00b SSG.

And in the manga, Goku was awestruck by the power of Beerus and the other Hakaishin when he watched them spar in the Zen Exhibition Match... And that was a Goku who could use MSSB /w/ KKx20.

In fact, it took SSB Vegito-level power before anyone speculated that Beerus may have been surpassed:

...But then you must ask: has Kaioshin even sensed Beerus at *full* power? That's very doubtful, imo, which means it's possible that he was comparing Vegito to a *suppressed* Beerus. /shrug

Still calling Beerus.

Surpassing god power seemed to take a serious toll on the body. When Freeza and an android is rag dolling you..

Originally posted by cdtm
Still calling Beerus.

Surpassing god power seemed to take a serious toll on the body. When Freeza and an android is rag dolling you..

No, Jiren was exhausted not because he surpassed the tier of the GoDs, but because he got his ass kicked by MUI Goku, who would do the same to Beerus.

Mad 100% Jiren could have sustained his form just fine. Too bad for him that he had to face MUI Goku, who in just 30 seconds ruined his day.

On the contrary, indeed, the fact that Jiren was still capable to fight 3 vs 1 after the serious beating he received from MUI Goku is testamentet to his enormous strength and stamina.

Yeah, I think I’ll actually go with Jiren here.

It's all about Destruction.

Beerus should be capable of so much more then Toppo showed.

And besides, he and his brother casually threatened the universe, just by locking up. Goku only threatened it by clashing hands with Beerus.

A true GoD is the common denominator here.

Originally posted by cdtm
It's all about Destruction.
Goku only threatened it by clashing hands with Beerus.

Given the ridicolous powerscaling of DBS, there's probably almost more difference in power between Limit breaker Jiren (let's call him like this) and BoG SSG Goku than the one there was between Raditz and Boo saga characters.

And the sad (or funny, it depends on which side you are) part is that I'm not even joking.

So, bringing in BoG SSG in this discussion doesn't actually change anything regarding Jiren vs Beerus.

It's a feat for Beerus.

Every time a universe was said to be threatened sans Zeno, Beerus was involved.

At this point I think a truly 'full power' Jiren can edge Beerus out, tbh. Not easily at all, mind you, but I think he could win nonetheless.

Of course, this is all subject to change depending on how the manga handles him. Jiren might be portrayed as decidedly below, equal to, or well above Beerus when all is said an done... Only time will tell.

Personally, I think episode 130 Jiren was a power-up moreso than his “true” full power, hence why I think Jiren is above Beerus.

Plus he started to do extremely well against MUI before MUI powered up.