spetznaz
Senior Fanboy Killer
Originally posted by riv6672
Agree to disagree.
You can argue p/cis all day, but those feats (where speed definitely dies NOT kill) are canon.
Add to that the fact that Supes is not even a speedster (a character that consistently moves at SS as its his main power) but instead a character with super speed, who consistently fights in non SS mode.
I originally posted that if this thread took off, Supes would be KK level within 2 pages. I was mistaken.
Instead posters are trying to give him the (undeserved) win via him suddenly being FlaSuperman.
So, like i said, agree to disagree.
We can definitely agree to disagree Riv, and with no bile whatsoever. After all, we are debating fictional characters that shoot fire from their eyes and wield flying hammers.
What I would like to raise though is your use of straw man arguments and red herrings, which is a bit unfortunate since you’re a good poster/debater that doesn’t have to rely on fallacies to make a point. I wouldn’t bother doing this if you were, say, Carver, Wolverine 888 or RealityWarper.
- You mention Superman is not a speedster because he doesn’t consistently move at superspeed as his main power. That’s an informal fallacy because we know that Superman is not only able to move at high levels of superspeed, but his speed levels are fast enough to beat all but the very fastest of DC characters that move fast. He is not the fastest, but apart from some high level Speed Force users (best examples being Wally and Barry), and some time-manipulators (Zolomon), he can hang with the best of them. He is definitely a super speedster, and while speed may not be his ONLY power it is definitely one of the MAIN powers. In DC most bricks tend to have some measure of speed ...with characters like Martian Manhunter, WonderWoman, etc being shown to move at speeds faster than (say) Quicksilver at Marvel is regularly depicted moving at. Even a character like Black Adam was shown moving at Mach 500
Point is: While Superman may not have speed as his main power (singular), it is one of the main powerS (plural) that he has. And he has it at such a level that he can keep up (most of the time) with elite SS like the Flash, even though they can dial speed up higher than he can.
- As for posters giving him a win by making him a ‘FlaSuperman,’ that’s a weak argument from you since he is actually fast enough to pull off a similar move. Another poster showed him doing exactly that to WonderWoman, who was ironically holding a blade, and is definitely skilled with weapons ...and got backhanded. Superman using speed against Thor is not the same as the Hulk using speed against Thor. One can actually be able to use speed.
- The use of Karate Kid was a straight straw man, and the only response to that is (i) the only person who raised that was you and (ii) I believe I clearly stated that pure skill wise Thor is better with weapons than Superman is. The Odinson was probably born with a blade in his hand.
Anyway, we can agree to disagree. No skin off either of our backs, and unlike many posters here I don’t think either of us feel they get a salary from DC or Marvel (hence no need to wank a character one way or the other). Thor winning, or Superman winning, doesn’t change a thing.
But posting without fallacies is important. Superman is not, and will never be, Karate Kid. Superman does not, and will likely never (unless some writer gets carried away) have greater weapon skills than Thor. However, Superman has very high level speed abilities, and whether one calls him a speedster or not, no one can argue he is unable to deploy high level speed.