Black Panther & Killmonger vs Thor

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
1. What evidence you have of such? The movie never claimed so! Nor is there a feat of a weaker person than Loki not being able to cut through Thor. Again, that is a fallacy. The shield feat is irrelevant, a shield doesn't equal a knife.

1.5 No, am not saying that, am saying Loki was able to cut him, and that there is no evidence to suggest that it requires Loki's strength to do so. Period.

2. Okay, it seems evident that you haven't watch Black Panther or are just deciding to obmit the first minutes of the movie. Or are you trolling? Which one is it Froth?

3. If you can't grasp the concept of a Knife being a better cutting tool than a Shield, then evidently there is something wrong with you. By logic, 1 inch wounds as maximum cutting dept, but it requires less than an Inch slice to cut through a vital vein.

Again Froth. Do you have Hammerless Thor feats to give him an advantage here?

Yes or No?

If no, then it's evident where the balance of this battle lies (That is ofcourse if you are not being biased)

1. So you think just because an adult with a knife can stab through a rhino then a toddler with the same knife can replicate the feat? This is common sense dude. When a very strong person is able to accomplish a physical feat, it would be stupid to think that weaker people can replicate it. Again, I've provided my proof regarding Cap's shield. You have provided ZERO proof.

2. Oh I watched Black Panther alright. They mentioned that vibranium was the strongest metal on Earth. On. Earth. Not in the entire universe, not in the entire 9 realms, not in the entire MCU. Do you understand the difference or do I have to dumb it down for you some more?

3. Why are you bringing up knives? We're talking about claws, not knives. And claws are not sharpened the same way knives are. So far Black Panther's claws have no feats of cutting that Cap's shield can't replicate. Again, you make lots of claims but never provide proof.

I have multiple feats of hammerless Thor. Many have already been mentioned. But why should I bother listing them down when you don't bother providing your own proof?

Originally posted by FrothByte
1. So you think just because an adult with a knife can stab through a rhino then a toddler with the same knife can replicate the feat? This is common sense dude. When a very strong person is able to accomplish a physical feat, it would be stupid to think that weaker people can replicate it. Again, I've provided my proof regarding Cap's shield. You have provided ZERO proof.

2. Oh I watched Black Panther alright. They mentioned that vibranium was the strongest metal on Earth. On. Earth. Not in the entire universe, not in the entire 9 realms, not in the entire MCU. Do you understand the difference or do I have to dumb it down for you some more?

3. Why are you bringing up knives? We're talking about claws, not knives. And claws are not sharpened the same way knives are. So far Black Panther's claws have no feats of cutting that Cap's shield can't replicate. Again, you make lots of claims but never provide proof.

I have multiple feats of hammerless Thor. Many have already been mentioned. But why should I bother listing them down when you don't bother providing your own proof?

I didnt saw Loki struggling to stab through Thor. So, you cant say a person needs to equal Loki's strength to do so.

The movie was explicit to say that it was the strongest metal. I dobt recall the movie limiting the metal to Earth. And yet there is no evidence neither to claim Asgardian metal superior!

3. Clearly a Claw reassembles more to a knife than to a Shield. So its valid.

Bahahahaha! No you havent! WTH!? Which feats, let me see them!

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
I didnt saw Loki struggling to stab through Thor. So, you cant say a person needs to equal Loki's strength to do so.

The movie was explicit to say that it was the strongest metal. I dobt recall the movie limiting the metal to Earth. And yet there is no evidence neither to claim Asgardian metal superior!

3. Clearly a Claw reassembles more to a knife than to a Shield. So its valid.

Bahahahaha! No you havent! WTH!? Which feats, let me see them!

1. Following your logic, are you going to say that the panthers can tank a full kick from Cap without moving just because Loki did so?

2. The person talking in the beginning of the movie was Wakandan, describing their culture's history. That person has not traveled the universe or the 9 realms to enable him to compare vibranium to other metals there. If my memory serves me right, I believe the description of vibranium is "strongest metal known to man". So do you now agree that vibranium has no proof of being stronger than Asgardian weaponry?

3. I guess you missed my point entirely, about how claws don't have a razor edge like knives do.

I'm still waiting for you to provide any sort of proof to back up your numerous claims.

Originally posted by FrothByte
1. Following your logic, are you going to say that the panthers can tank a full kick from Cap without moving just because Loki did so?

2. The person talking in the beginning of the movie was Wakandan, describing their culture's history. That person has not traveled the universe or the 9 realms to enable him to compare vibranium to other metals there. If my memory serves me right, I believe the description of vibranium is "strongest metal known to man". So do you now agree that vibranium has no proof of being stronger than Asgardian weaponry?

3. I guess you missed my point entirely, about how claws don't have a razor edge like knives do.

I'm still waiting for you to provide any sort of proof to back up your numerous claims.

1. Receiving damage and dealing damage is a completely different thing. You can't compare them.

2. I don't have the movie's intro words completely fresh to argue. So, I guess this point isn't debatable.

Well, based on feats Vibranium has proven to be the strongest MCU Metal. Asgardian metal have no feats to contest Vibranium.

3. The razor of a blade is meant to slice not stab.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Lets put the cards on the table, since it seems all of you are just bringing fairy tales up here!

Thor (No hammer and Pre Ragnarok):

- He has no feats to really know his potential.
-He is not as good as a fighter as T'Challa or Killmonger
- Is being OUTNUMBERED.

Panthers:

-Vibranium suits which can repulse KE.
- Vibranium claws, which by the way are harder than Loki's knifes.
-Are known elite fighters
- Are arguably faster and more agile.

[B] Freak, it's pretty obvious whose in disadvantage here

I know you guys are enormous Thor lovers, but a hammerless P-R Thor isn't the same! [/B]

These are my arguments Froth, all of which i can back with evidence.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
1. Receiving damage and dealing damage is a completely different thing. You can't compare them.

2. I don't have the movie's intro words completely fresh to argue. So, I guess this point isn't debatable.

Well, based on feats Vibranium has proven to be the strongest MCU Metal. Asgardian metal have no feats to contest Vibranium.

3. The razor of a blade is meant to slice not stab.

1. Yet strength plays a very big factor in both of them, why are you disregarding strength only in one?

2. You just don't want to admit it. The person talking in the beginning is Wakandan, therefore it doesn't matter what exact words he uses, fact is he can only be referring to Earth because he's never been outside of Earth to compare metals with other planets and races. Bottom line, there's no proof that vibranium weapons are actually stronger than Asgardian weapons. As per feats, Asgardian weapons have been shown to easily injure Asgardians, Dark Elves, Kursed ones and Frost Giants. What's the most durable thing vibranium weapons have taken on?

3. So are you saying that you think the panthers will only stab at Thor? That's fair. He'll get about a half an inch of steel stabbed into him. You really think that's going to stop Thor?

Originally posted by FrothByte
1. Yet strength plays a very big factor in both of them, why are you disregarding strength only in one?

2. You just don't want to admit it. The person talking in the beginning is Wakandan, therefore it doesn't matter what exact words he uses, fact is he can only be referring to Earth because he's never been outside of Earth to compare metals with other planets and races. Bottom line, there's no proof that vibranium weapons are actually stronger than Asgardian weapons. As per feats, Asgardian weapons have been shown to easily injure Asgardians, Dark Elves, Kursed ones and Frost Giants. What's the most durable thing vibranium weapons have taken on?

3. So are you saying that you think the panthers will only stab at Thor? That's fair. He'll get about a half an inch of steel stabbed into him. You really think that's going to stop Thor?

1. If Loki would have struggled to penetrate Thor's skin THEN AND ONLY THEN you would have point. However the knife went inside like if it was butter! So you really can't say it requires an impressive or Loki's level of strength to perform the feat.

So again, you don't have a valid point Froth.

2. I don't recall. Otherwise, i would admit my mistake Froth. And still, Vibranium has better feats than Asgardian metal.

3. How about a stab in the neck? Or multiple stabs everywhere? The Panthers are clearly faster.

Originally posted by Inhuman
Im not here to discuss what destroyed Sokovia. If it was the strike from Thor, his lightning , the Vibranium machine, a combo of all 3, who cares, thats not the point.

The point is that there was an explosion that reduced Sokovia to rubble. Thor was right in the middle of that blast and survived.

The hammer doesn't work as an energy shield all around Thor . If you have proof then post it.
Every time Thor has blocked an attack he has aim to where the attack is coming at him from. The hammer doesnt give him an 360 degree full body shield around Thor.
The Sokovia blast was all around Thor, not just in front of his hammer. Plus Thor didn't have the hammer up trying to block the blast. Even of he did it wouldn't have shielded him from the full blast that was all around him.

To think that Thor blocked the blast of that magnitude from every angle with his hammer is nonsense.

Anyhow, to simplify this further.

Even Hulk pounding Thor on the ground for a while didnt KO Thor.
Neither of the Panthers have enough physical force to beat Thor that way.
If they try to beat him with cutting or scratching him they will be close enough for Thor to 1 shot them.
Superficial wounds wont keep Thor from killing these 2 when they get close, when more powerful foes(than these 2) wounding Thor haven't slowed him down before.

This is a spite thread. Thor 10/10

Josh is just a massively biased fanboy. the guy actually claimed movie Juggernaut's punches were comparable to Thor's charged hammer shots.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
1. If Loki would have struggled to penetrate Thor's skin THEN AND ONLY THEN you would have point. However the knife went inside like if it was butter! So you really can't say it requires an impressive or Loki's level of strength to perform the feat.

So again, you don't have a valid point Froth.

2. I don't recall. Otherwise, i would admit my mistake Froth. And still, Vibranium has better feats than Asgardian metal.

3. How about a stab in the neck? Or multiple stabs everywhere? The Panthers are clearly faster.

1. Why would Loki need to struggle? He's in Thor's strength range. He wouldn't have trouble stabbing Thor in much the same way a human adult wouldn't struggle stabbing another human adult. That doesn't mean that a 2 yr old can stab an adult just as easily. You do realize that knives don't just cut and puncture on their own, you actually need to put some force into it.

2. I'm already telling you, you're mistaken. It was never stated that Vibranium was the strongest metal in the entire universe, let alone the MCU. Besides, what better feats does Vibranium have?

3. Multiple stabs in the neck might work... if they can do it. You'd need to prove that the panthers are fast and skilled enough to go in, stab Thor a few times then get back out of range all without getting hit or grabbed by Thor.

Originally posted by FrothByte
1. Why would Loki need to struggle? He's in Thor's strength range. He wouldn't have trouble stabbing Thor in much the same way a human adult wouldn't struggle stabbing another human adult. That doesn't mean that a 2 yr old can stab an adult just as easily. You do realize that knives don't just cut and puncture on their own, you actually need to put some force into it.

2. I'm already telling you, you're mistaken. It was never stated that Vibranium was the strongest metal in the entire universe, let alone the MCU. Besides, what better feats does Vibranium have?

3. Multiple stabs in the neck might work... if they can do it. You'd need to prove that the panthers are fast and skilled enough to go in, stab Thor a few times then get back out of range all without getting hit or grabbed by Thor.

1. The Panthers ain't 2 year old, nor are they normal humans. They do have superhuman strength, and nothing suggests that they couldn't be able to replicate Loki's feat.

Loki is in the same strength level as Thor!??? WELLLLL that is a new one to me!

2. Let's say you are right, and i decide to believe you. Featwise, Vibranium is stronger than Asgardian metal. So still, you reach nowhere.

3. T'Challa is fast and agile enough to rival elite fighters like Cap and Bucky. Thor on the other hand doesn't have good fighting feats to put him in par.

Okay Froth, you are still not giving me any evidence and are just trying to refute my points. Do you have evidence or no?

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
1. The Panthers ain't 2 year old, nor are they normal humans. They do have superhuman strength, and nothing suggests that they couldn't be able to replicate Loki's feat.

Loki is in the same strength level as Thor!??? WELLLLL that is a new one to me!

2. Let's say you are right, and i decide to believe you. Featwise, Vibranium is stronger than Asgardian metal. So still, you reach nowhere.

3. T'Challa is fast and agile enough to rival elite fighters like Cap and Bucky. Thor on the other hand doesn't have good fighting feats to put him in par.

Okay Froth, you are still not giving me any evidence and are just trying to refute my points. Do you have evidence or no?

1. The panthers are superhumanly strong but nowhere near the level of Asgardians who are strong enough to casually chuck around cars. I said Loki is in the same strength RANGE as Thor, not that he's as strong as Thor. Because if he wasn't, he wouldn't be able to manhandle Thor like he does every now and then.

2. I'm still waiting for you to provide these supposed feats that prove vibranium is stronger. Well? Are you every going to provide proof?

3. So prove to me that Thor won't be able to land a hit on the panthers. After all, Loki had no trouble keeping up with Cap so it's not like the supersoldiers have a massive speed advantage over the Asgardians.

Thor fought SHIELD agents hammerless. Majority of his fight against IM and Hulk in Avengers was done hammerless. He fought prisoners and even killed on in TDW hammerless. He took out Hydra agents in the beginning of AoU hammerless after he threw Mjolnir for the first hit.
See? Multiple proof. Now your turn: Prove to me that BP is too fast for Thor to hit or that BP can survive getting hit by Thor.

Originally posted by FrothByte
1. The panthers are superhumanly strong but nowhere near the level of Asgardians who are strong enough to casually chuck around cars. I said Loki is in the same strength RANGE as Thor, not that he's as strong as Thor. Because if he wasn't, he wouldn't be able to manhandle Thor like he does every now and then.

2. I'm still waiting for you to provide these supposed feats that prove vibranium is stronger. Well? Are you every going to provide proof?

3. So prove to me that Thor won't be able to land a hit on the panthers. After all, Loki had no trouble keeping up with Cap so it's not like the supersoldiers have a massive speed advantage over the Asgardians.

Thor fought SHIELD agents hammerless. Majority of his fight against IM and Hulk in Avengers was done hammerless. He fought prisoners and even killed on in TDW hammerless. He took out Hydra agents in the beginning of AoU hammerless after he threw Mjolnir for the first hit.
See? Multiple proof. Now your turn: Prove to me that BP is too fast for Thor to hit or that BP can survive getting hit by Thor.

Loki is a frost Giant not an Asgardian. And still, again, you haven't brought any reliable evidence to say that only Loki can stab Thor. So either you have it, or it is just your opinion.

Taking blows from Mjolnir. Resisting Chitauri blasts. Taking Space Stone energy blasts. Resisting Scepter's blasts. And many many many many more feats. How about Asgardian metal?

You do realize that T' Challa is faster than Cap right?

And you are comparing Shield, Hydra and Prisoners to T'Challa and killmonger!?

Iron Man isn't a good fighter and Hulk is a brute beast.

Sorry not enough feats to give Thor an adv.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Prove to me that BP is too fast for Thor to hit or that BP can survive getting hit by Thor.

Maybe being surrounded by Vibranium?...

Surely a hit from Thor would be shocking, but not mortal. And it's two against one.

Also, again, they are better fighters and faster. Thor will struggle to land good hits on these fellows.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Loki is a frost Giant not an Asgardian. And still, again, you haven't brought any reliable evidence to say that only Loki can stab Thor. So either you have it, or it is just your opinion.

Taking blows from Mjolnir. Resisting Chitauri blasts. Taking Space Stone energy blasts. Resisting Scepter's blasts. And many many many many more feats. How about Asgardian metal?

You do realize that T' Challa is faster than Cap right?

And you are comparing Shield, Hydra and Prisoners to T'Challa and killmonger!?

Iron Man isn't a good fighter and Hulk is a brute beast.

Sorry not enough feats to give Thor an adv.

Proof doesn't work like that. You cannot expect me to prove a negative. You're the one claiming panthers can stab Thor, therefore burden of proof is on you. Thor is extremely durable and has never been harmed by a man-made weapon. You want to claim that humans can harm him with man-made weapons then go ahead: prove it.

Weren't you the one who said that offensive and defensive capabilities are not the same? And yet here you are listing all defensive feats for vibranium. How bout you prove that vibranium makes better weapons than Asgardian weapons since, you know, that's what claws are.

There's no proof that T'Challa is faster than Cap.

You asked for proof of hamerless Thor, I gave it to you. IM and Hulk would beat the crap out of BP or Kilmonger and these are guys Thor fought hammerless. Just because they're not as agile doesn't mean Thor's feats don't hold merit.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Proof doesn't work like that. You cannot expect me to prove a negative. You're the one claiming panthers can stab Thor, therefore burden of proof is on you. Thor is extremely durable and has never been harmed by a man-made weapon. You want to claim that humans can harm him with man-made weapons then go ahead: prove it.

Weren't you the one who said that offensive and defensive capabilities are not the same? And yet here you are listing all defensive feats for vibranium. How bout you prove that vibranium makes better weapons than Asgardian weapons since, you know, that's what claws are.

There's no proof that T'Challa is faster than Cap.

You asked for proof of hamerless Thor, I gave it to you. IM and Hulk would beat the crap out of BP or Kilmonger and these are guys Thor fought hammerless. Just because they're not as agile doesn't mean Thor's feats don't hold merit.

Okay we are just going in circles now.

You haven't shown any viable feats of a hammerless pre-ragnarok Thor to make him win this battle.

He is outnumbered, and has no viable way of defeating the panthers. We shall continue this debate when you bring me compelling evidence.

Post data: Thor and IM don't have Vibranium daggers/claws.

He has a very viable way of defeating them, it's called punching them with his vastly superior strength.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Josh is just a massively biased fanboy. the guy actually claimed movie Juggernaut's punches were comparable to Thor's charged hammer shots.

Seems that way.

Originally posted by Inhuman
Seems that way.

Am not the one supporting Thor here.

And concession accepted.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Am not the one supporting Thor here.

And that is why you look like a biased troll. This is a spite thread against the panthers. They are outclassed here. If you cant see this then go watch the movies again, because you seem to not know what these characters are capable of.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander

It's more than evident that Mjolnir protects Thor from energy attacks, to say otherwise is being biased!

Where have I said the hammer doesn't protect Thor or is not able to deflect attacks? Show me. Im fully aware what the hammer can do from what is shown in the movies.
I said the hammer doesn't protect Thor in a 360 degree radius around his body. Only right in front of him, while the attacks are hitting the hammer.
Do you know what 360 degrees means? Maybe that is the issue here, you not knowing what these words mean. You seem confused a lot in your replies in various threads. Reminds me of shades of H1.
The Sokovia blast was ALL AROUND Thor NOT just in from of him in the area around the hammer. Thinking this is stupid and ridiculous.

Here is my post again.

Originally posted by Inhuman
Im not here to discuss what destroyed Sokovia. If it was the strike from Thor, his lightning , the Vibranium machine, a combo of all 3, who cares, thats not the point.

The point is that there was an explosion that reduced Sokovia to rubble. Thor was right in the middle of that blast and survived.

The hammer doesn't work as an energy shield all around Thor . If you have proof then post it.
Every time Thor has blocked an attack he has aim to where the attack is coming at him from. The hammer doesnt give him an 360 degree full body shield around Thor.
The Sokovia blast was all around Thor, not just in front of his hammer. Plus Thor didn't have the hammer up trying to block the blast. Even of he did it wouldn't have shielded him from the full blast that was all around him.

To think that Thor blocked the blast of that magnitude from every angle with his hammer is nonsense.

Anyhow, to simplify this further.

Even Hulk pounding Thor on the ground for a while didnt KO Thor.
Neither of the Panthers have enough physical force to beat Thor that way.
If they try to beat him with cutting or scratching him they will be close enough for Thor to 1 shot them.
Superficial wounds wont keep Thor from killing these 2 when they get close, when more powerful foes(than these 2) wounding Thor haven't slowed him down before.

This is a spite thread. Thor 10/10

Also Thor is a skilled enough fighter that has hundreds/thousands of years of combat experience. Every time he has fought with no hammer he has shown he is a capable fighter. He was outfighting HUlk in Avengers and Ragnarok.
Even if I agree the Panthers may be a bit faster. That wont help them at all.

Just like a feather wight boxer that is faster and more skilled fighting a heavyweight boxer that isn't as fast or skilled.

The heavy weight will destroy the feather weight regardless of not having a speed or skill advantage.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Am not the one supporting Thor here.

And concession accepted.

Which is why you're being called a fanboy as this is an obvious spite thread against BP's team.