Originally posted by Blindside12Law is not always an indication of morality. Sometimes laws are immoral, like the one that used to say black people are 3/5ths of a person. Or the law that required Jews to wear a yellow badge.
Borders are political, so even if its a felony, that law is also political so its not really a crimes to him. Could we just get all the liberals to move to Mexico?
Originally posted by Firefly218
Law is not always an indication of morality. Sometimes laws are immoral, like the one that used to say black people are 3/5ths of a person. Or the law that required Jews to wear a yellow badge.
Perhaps if you want to make a more poignant statement use modern laws.
In the spirit of your posts, we should get rid of govt benefits, laws, taxes, etc so that countries are a thing of the past and we can have open borders!
Originally posted by Firefly218
Law is not always an indication of morality. Sometimes laws are immoral, like the one that used to say black people are 3/5ths of a person. Or the law that required Jews to wear a yellow badge.
The question is, who gets to say what laws are immoral?
Something like Jim Crow laws are obvious.
Something like gay marriage, abortion, gun, or free speech rights, not so much.
I can think of.many arguments from both sides devolving into "Well, it's the law" when it suits them. But to only use that argument for the laws one agrees with is hypocritical, imo.
Originally posted by cdtm
I can think of.many arguments from both sides devolving into "Well, it's the law" when it suits them. But to only use that argument for the laws one agrees with is hypocritical, imo.
Oh I have a great example of this. The illegal in San Francisco was awarded 200k because some cop or something turned him into the authorities and that is against the law. When he won the 200k, leftists went "well...it's the law". Lol, but of course not coming here illegally is also a law, but they give two shits about that. Suddenly they don't matter.
Anytime you see a leftist whine about the law not being followed just throw illegal immigration in their faces.
Originally posted by Bashar Teg
...oooor we could simply maintain a healthy skepticism about our system of law and not equate every nuance of it with self-evident rightness?
In that sense, I agree. We should allow more H1b visas, we should find a way to allow day workers to come in and work here, we should find a system that allows folks from other countries to come here to work for a season in agriculture etc etc
However, we should also enforce our laws. The first job of every elected official is to protect our citizens even if that means atm it disrupts certain communities to enforce laws in place.
Change the laws to achieve different outcomes. There is no way in the future we "out think" China or India when the top 10% of their great minds are roughly equivalant to our total population.
Originally posted by snowdragon👆
In that sense, I agree. We should allow more H1b visas, we should find a way to allow day workers to come in and work here, we should find a system that allows folks from other countries to come here to work for a season in agriculture etc etcHowever, we should also enforce our laws. The first job of every elected official is to protect our citizens even if that means atm it disrupts certain communities to enforce laws in place.
Change the laws to achieve different outcomes. There is no way in the future we "out think" China or India when the top 10% of their great minds are roughly equivalant to our total population.
By all means enforce immigration laws. I’m just saying to have a little compassion for the undocumented immigrants who are already here and built s life for themselves in America. There’s particularly no reason to punish kids who were brought here as babies and America is all they know. Any decent human being supports daca
Originally posted by snowdragonI think bash summed it up well. Law and politics is important but is not always the barometer for true morality.
Perhaps if you want to make a more poignant statement use modern laws.In the spirit of your posts, we should get rid of govt benefits, laws, taxes, etc so that countries are a thing of the past and we can have open borders!
Originally posted by Bashar Teg
...oooor we could simply maintain a healthy skepticism about our system of law and not equate every nuance of it with self-evident rightness?
Originally posted by Firefly218
I think bash summed it up well. Law and politics is important but is not always the barometer for true morality.
I have no problem with it, but here is the tricky part: it only works if people don't cherry pick their skepticism. Which is something I don't think either side can refrain from doing.
Originally posted by snowdragonI mean, I do my best to be a good moral person. That’s all anyone can do, their best. Everyone is selfish, a little racist, a little sexist, but we just have to do our best
Just saying if your moral barometer dictates your choices what are you going to do to make money, you are going to make compromises.
Originally posted by Firefly218
I mean, I do my best to be a good moral person. That’s all anyone can do, their best. Everyone is selfish, a little racist, a little sexist, but we just have to do our best
"Everyone is a little racist and sexist". They'll burn you as an apostate for saying that. Watch out.
This was the last straw, the government is now suing California for for Sanctuary Cities policy and limiting business free speech that is protected under the first amendment.
https://www.politico.com/story/2018/03/06/trump-california-sanctuary-laws-443835
California is now regulating the speech of its employees and its illegal for a business to cooperate with ICE, if Ice asks a business if there is undocumented workers, its illegal for them to answer, which is a direct violation of the first amendment.
Firefly your argument is flawed, in one sentence you saw follow the law then the next you say we gotta make an exception.
We live in a country where cops, businesses, mayors ignore federal law which by your logic is ok due to compassion.
We all have compassion and try to be decent people, just like those immigrants who come here legally and followed procedure and probably don't like that illegal immigrants can just come here and break the law.
Originally posted by DarthPlaguis12If you found a federal law to be immoral, you would still follow it?
Firefly your argument is flawed, in one sentence you saw follow the law then the next you say we gotta make an exception.We live in a country where cops, businesses, mayors ignore federal law which by your logic is ok due to compassion.
We all have compassion and try to be decent people, just like those immigrants who come here legally and followed procedure and probably don't like that illegal immigrants can just come here and break the law.