neo is he a program?

conscience and ...a bunch of organs.

Yeah, but within the Matrix this is also true of the Oracle, Agent Smith, Persephone, The Merovingian and his henchmen, and every other program/algorithm.

In short, you haven’t established that there is a definite difference, yet you insist that a definite difference exist. Most curious …

Not at all. Everyone with an ounce of sense knows what this question means so there is no need to attack the very foundation of the question.

A simple application of common sense is all that is needed to know what people mean when they ask if he is a programme or not.

If it is so simple, then you should have no trouble explaining it.

Any complication is utterly superfluous.

Yes, such as claiming that two identical things are actually different?

That is what I’d call a superfluous (unnecessary) over-complication.

Yes, I CAN explain it simply. IS Neo a programme... or is he not? THAT is what the question means.

THAT is how simple it is and 99.999 percent of everyone who sees this question knows exactly what the person asking it means.

Now, if you want to start talking about how there is no such difference (despite the difference being abundantly clear from the film- we have people presented as programmes and others as humans) and all that jazz, feel free to discuss it in the Philosophy thread but do not complicate this very simple question.

Yes, I CAN explain it simply. IS Neo a programme... or is he not? THAT is what the question means.

define these two terms with “the Matrix” reality in mind:

Human conscious
Machine conscious

Did you see the Animatrix, Ushgarak? It seemed to me that the entire point of those shorts was to pose the question of what is the difference between man and machine?

Especially the two part Renaissance bit, and the last story. In fact, it was the very question the “robots” were asking the “humans” – how are we (mentally) different?

Gee, I really don't care.

Here is the thing, Serpent. When Skittles asked 'Is he a programme or is he human' then all that was meant ws "Is he a human like Trinity or Morpheus, as we have been led to believe, or is he as some think a programme like Smith and the Agents and Seraph."

Now, if you say to this "But there is no difference between programme and human" most people will simply say back to you "Huh? Dah, of COURSE there is, one is a human and one is a programme!" This elegant simplicity is actually far more useful than your obscure philisophical approach but that is hardly relevant because that is ALL the question is- as the film portrays the two concepts (and no matter what you say ANY person can see that the film draws a distinction between programme and human as much as we can tell the difference between red and green- it is so obvious as to be not worth stating), is he human or programme?

This thread should be kept prosaic. If you then want to advance the idea "Some people are talking about Neo being human or machine or programme but I think they are all the same, here is why, try and prove me wrong," then do that in the PHILOSOPHY area, not here where your complication to that question is not necessary. Don't go around messing up this thread by making out that the question is meaningless when it makes perfect sense to just about everyone who read it, thanks.

Gee, I really don't care.

Then why discuss it?

Here is the thing, Serpent. When Skittles asked 'Is he a programme or is he human' then all that was meant ws "Is he a human like Trinity or Morpheus, as we have been led to believe, or is he as some think a programme like Smith and the Agents and Seraph."

And aside from the fact that you have been told Seraph is a Program and Morpheus is not, what is different about them. (what is different about them from the point of view of someone in the matrix?)

Now, if you say to this "But there is no difference between programme and human" most people will simply say back to you "Huh? Dah, of COURSE there is, one is a human and one is a programme!"

So you are saying that claiming they are different is what makes them different?

Kind of like Columbus and the Native Americans? Insist one race is less than human, because it makes it easier to exterminate them that way?

This elegant simplicity is actually far more useful than your obscure philisophical approach but that is hardly relevant because that is ALL the question is- as the film portrays the two concepts (and no matter what you say ANY person can see that the film draws a distinction between programme and human as much as we can tell the difference between red and green- it is so obvious as to be not worth stating), is he human or programme?

I guess by that same logic there is no difference between the real world and a matrix? You just need to be told what to believe?

If you are told there is a difference between Human and Algorithm then there must be (even if NONE is apparent). Likewise if you are told that there is a difference between a real world and a matrix, then there must be (even if NONE is apparent).

Ahhh, but thinking is much harder than blind acceptance.

This thread should be kept prosaic. If you then want to advance the idea "Some people are talking about Neo being human or machine or programme but I think they are all the same, here is why, try and prove me wrong," then do that in the PHILOSOPHY area, not here where your complication to that question is not necessary. Don't go around messing up this thread by making out that the question is meaningless when it makes perfect sense to just about everyone who read it, thanks.

My apologies, obviously there is no need for further analysis because, as you point out, the film specifically states that Neo is human, and Smith is a program. I’m glad we settled the matter. Thanks for straightening me out.

I WASN'T discussing it ('it' being the difference between differing consciousness). I was telling you NOT to discuss it. That was the point. You are so wound up with your own complications that you cannot see what is blindingly obvious.

So I shall state it again in clear terms that cannot be mis-understood:

If you want to talk about whether there is actually a difference between programme and human... do it ELSEWHERE- i.e. in the Philosophy thread. Such comments do not usefully answer the question here and so are off-topic.

Everything else you say is utterly irrelevant. BTW, this is a film, not real life. Try to remember that. When a film or story gives you a canonical fact, best to accept it rather than assume it is false unless you have a reason to think otherwise. That is nothing to do with not thinking; it is just common sense.

Now, this thread should return on-topic please- USEFUL comments on whether you think Neo is a programme or not.

nice argument LOL 😂

ok im kinda going off topic but did u guys see the mtv movie awards with justin timberlake and sean william scott acting lik they were in the matrix, that was funny, i especially liked the architect nd how he got pissed off at Neo. lololol 😆 😛 🤣

but if the emp didnt effect the inside then it would be ok to leave him inside

he is a human with a string of code inside him, like a wurm virus in the real world of computers. he is needed, not because the repetition of the virus is needed, but because there needs to be a cycle
the one goes to the source and repopulates the earth
zion grows too big and unruly, they are now a threat
the one returns and the machines destroy zion\
the one repopulates the earth and the machines take a breather

He could be a program

Unless...nahh...well..hmm.. He stopped the sentinals in the real world:

1. He has a part of smith in him
2. The real world was another sim & there are 6 currently running.

I'm sure neo is a program. Agent Smith don't go in the real world but in a second level of matrix. It's obvious that it's another level cause neo in the "real world" stops the sentinel exatly as he stops bullets in the first matrix movie. In the revolutions we discover that Neo is not a simple program but one of the most important program (maybe THE program, the matrix). He'll kill himself to stop the matrix world. maybe is not what we re waiting for...but it's the truth......

Capodelmondo

Originally posted by mac11586
If neo were a machine like people keep stateing. May i ask why he didn't go into a coma in the first movie. If you rember they set off an emp and he was on the ship which is a lot closer to the source than in the 2nd movie. Why didn''t he go out then.

The ship mist be shielded. Otherwise the electronics there would be blasted as well.

He´s not human. At least he has no human body. He was programmed to be the ONE. He is a tool to lead "free minds" in a system they could accept. This idea is more romantic than it looks, 'cause the tool can turn against the Architect. But if free minds have awaken once... they can do it twice. Now, Neo must help their friends to disconnect again and destroy the real Matrix and all its programs, even himself. 😎

neo is a program designed to control the humans, like the oracle.

Neo cant be a programme....thats not fair 🙁

I TRULY BELIEVE NEO IS A PROGRAM, think about it!! Only programs are allowed to return to the source, he carries a code that is supposed to reloaded the matrix, he can stop the setinials, i mean come on!! Its not like Morpheous would be able to go to that room with the TV's and merge with the source. that just what I think.

Take note of this. He is the same in all generations of the matrix. Zion is part of the matrix. Neo can't be killed , just as none of the agents can be killed. Agent smith is the wild card. He knew of the several genrations from 1st movie. He also had control of his self. Note also in hte previews, he and neo are apparently the only characters of relavince. Neo is depressed cause he know he is still in the matrix and only a program. He is the choice for all the people like morphius. He see that he is much like god of the true world. People need hope to carry on. But at some point you have to send the people something tangible to affirm that hope. Neo is thet. As long as the members of the matrix think Neo is comming, they strive on.