Jean Grey Vs Saturn Girl

Originally posted by StyleTime
It depends on if he meant total effectiveness or not. Rachel vs Emma is the classic example. Rachel has projected her mind to the Earth from half a universe away.
https://postimg.org/image/sylw3lsez/
https://postimg.org/image/hz0orzua3/
https://postimg.org/image/8eh253x8b/

And sifted through the planet, categorizing people by current activity while searching for the Hellfire Club.
https://postimg.org/image/70pf9pq8b/

Emma still thwacked her telepathically, citing her lack of skill. (Not posting whole fight since everyone's seen it.)
https://postimg.org/image/ax2r5xvuz/

Are we doing an amalgam Saturn Girl, or specifically the one in the pic?

Even setting aside the TP argument, Jean still has TK. She is capable of blasting Imra the length of France without Phoenix.

https://postimg.org/image/9jb4alu0r/
https://postimg.org/image/nczgznewb/

SG has TK blasts herself.

Originally posted by riv6672
The length of France...

The issue specified they were on the coast of Northern France. Jean launched him to the Pyrenees, a mountain range at the southern border with Spain.

Originally posted by Zack M
SG has TK blasts herself.

On a side note, many telepaths have one-off feats of physically affecting the environment(Xavier destroyed a sentinel with tp lol). I think some writers imagine psychic abilities as different branches of one psychokinetic tree. Get enough power in one area and you unlock others.

Originally posted by StyleTime
https://postimg.org/image/9fzgxfq2z/

The issue specified they were on the coast of Northern France. Jean launched him to the Pyrenees, a mountain range at the southern border with Spain.

I chalk that up to creator error. She never displayed it outside of that one issue, and hasn't been referenced with TK now. It's in the same boat as Phoebe Cuckoo or Xavier displaying TK. We can safely disregard it without misrepresenting the characters.

On a side note, many telepaths have one-off feats of physically affecting the environment(Xavier destroyed a sentinel with tp lol). I think some writers imagine psychic abilities as different branches of one psychokinetic tree. Get enough power in one area and you unlock others.

There's always been a very narrow line between TK and TP in comics.

Emma Frost was also able to shatter an entire building during her psychic battle with the Phoenix, even though it was a telepathic duel. Although, one might argue Emma had latent telekinesis when later one of her students (Synch?) I think was copying her powers, despite it never being anything consciously used by Emma at any point.

A lot of the times due to writers muddling the lines, a telepath may be mistakenly depicted as performing feats as if they had TK, when they actually don't.

In the case of Jean, however, her TK is very much explicitly one of her abilities and not a byproduct of ambiguous application of her TP. And her TK is something she could easily deploy to KO Saturn Girl, or snap her neck with a thought.

That all depends on how Jean endures Saturn Girl's psychic attack. If she can mind phuck Universo (who is miles above Jean) and Martian Manhunter (who also has his form of TK and a crap load of other powers), then it's safe to say Irma wins the majority.

Jean Grey is an entirely different beast, especially in combat.

The crazy, burning red head, wins.

GTFO with that shit. Saturn Queen, the lesser TP has killed J'onn as an afterthought.

Imra kills the *****.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Jean Grey is an entirely different beast, especially in combat.

The crazy, burning red head, wins.

Her and Cyclops too? Pr sure knows how to pick characters...

Originally posted by StyleTime
It depends on if he meant total effectiveness or not. Rachel vs Emma is the classic example. Rachel has projected her mind to the Earth from half a universe away.
https://postimg.org/image/sylw3lsez/
https://postimg.org/image/hz0orzua3/
https://postimg.org/image/8eh253x8b/

Wasn’t that with the echo of Phoenix she had? Imra has felt the emotion of every being in the universe simultaneously.

http://i.imgur.com/2KitjJv.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/qON4WFu.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/xe1hZQ1.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/bf1aV5K.jpg

And sifted through the planet, categorizing people by current activity while searching for the Hellfire Club.
https://postimg.org/image/70pf9pq8b/

Emma still thwacked her telepathically, citing her lack of skill. (Not posting whole fight since everyone's seen it.)
https://postimg.org/image/ax2r5xvuz/

Emma may be some hot shot in the X men but not to the Legion. Here Saturn Queen kills J'onn via telepathy.

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11111/111112793/3143517-manhunterlmao2.jpg

She has been consistently owned by Imra like a feeb.

Are we doing an amalgam Saturn Girl, or specifically the one in the pic?

Even setting aside the TP argument, Jean still has TK. She is capable of blasting Imra the length of France without Phoenix.

https://postimg.org/image/9jb4alu0r/
https://postimg.org/image/nczgznewb/

And finds out that's all an illusion. Like universo found out.

Originally posted by abhilegend
GTFO with that shit. Saturn Queen, the lesser TP has killed J'onn as an afterthought.

Imra kills the *****.

👆

And she'll destroy Jean easier than Universo.

Funny hiw the cattiest things in this thread AREN'T the two female chaeacters. 😆

You have to love Style's categorical knowledge of every female character 😛

Originally posted by Glorificus
There's always been a very narrow line between TK and TP in comics.

Emma Frost was also able to shatter an entire building during her psychic battle with the Phoenix, even though it was a telepathic duel. Although, one might argue Emma had latent telekinesis when later one of her students (Synch?) I think was copying her powers, despite it never being anything consciously used by Emma at any point.

A lot of the times due to writers muddling the lines, a telepath may be mistakenly depicted as performing feats as if they had TK, when they actually don't.

In the case of Jean, however, her TK is very much explicitly one of her abilities and not a byproduct of ambiguous application of her TP. And her TK is something she could easily deploy to KO Saturn Girl, or snap her neck with a thought.

Some writers get a little too loose with their definitions.

Originally posted by Zack M
That all depends on how Jean endures Saturn Girl's psychic attack. If she can mind phuck Universo (who is miles above Jean) and Martian Manhunter (who also has his form of TK and a crap load of other powers), then it's safe to say Irma wins the majority.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Wasn’t that with the echo of Phoenix she had? Imra has felt the emotion of every being in the universe simultaneously.

http://i.imgur.com/2KitjJv.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/qON4WFu.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/xe1hZQ1.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/bf1aV5K.jpg

Emma may be some hot shot in the X men but not to the Legion. Here Saturn Queen kills J'onn via telepathy.

https://static.comicvine.com/upload...hunterlmao2.jpg

She has been consistently owned by Imra like a feeb.

And finds out that's all an illusion. Like universo found out.

Although, Emma has decent showings against Xavier. She's not as far down the totem pole as you think.

As for the illusion scenario, it would launch simultaneously with Jean's TK, which would be a quick draw. Being reasonable to both parties, I can't see Jean doing worse than 5/5. And that's if we throw out her telepathy completely. With it, she doesn't have to be superior to Saturn Girl. Just enough to buy like, 1 second.

Originally posted by StyleTime
Remember how Imra punched Universo's lights out? Yeah, Jean has TK. Using him is wonky regardless, since he's technically a hypnotist rather than a telepath.

The Blue Echo left her in preparation for the shit show that was AvX. The scans were for the discussion about effectiveness though. It wasn't a direct comparison to Imra.

Although, Emma has decent showings against Xavier. She's not as far down the totem pole as you think.

As for the illusion scenario, it would launch simultaneously with Jean's TK, which would be a quick draw. Being reasonable to both parties, I can't see Jean doing worse than 5/5. And that's if we throw out her telepathy completely. With it, she doesn't have to be superior to Saturn Girl. Just enough to buy like, 1 second.

He's also a Telepath. And, it comes down to who can affect which mind first. I'll go with the superior telepath here.

Originally posted by StyleTime
Although, Emma has decent showings against Xavier. She's not as far down the totem pole as you think.

Anyway, here's a reference point if you want to scale for Emma. Xavier has also felt every thought ever conceived in the universe.

https://postimg.org/image/y5bj6h1pn/

She's not Saturn Girl in scope obviously, but her skill allows her to tussle with the high end, Phoenix entity included.

But can Jean take a majority? Doubtful. Jean would do horribly against Manchester, let alone Irma.

Manchester has TK though, so it's a different fight. The reason I give Jean a majority is due to the TK. In pure telepathy, sure, this thread is a different animal. In a regular fight though, I don't see any gap between them being big enough to consistently nullify Jean's TK edge.

So probably like 6/10 Jean, depending on where you think Jean ends and the Phoenix begins.

Originally posted by StyleTime

The Blue Echo left her in preparation for the shit show that was AvX. The scans were for the discussion about effectiveness though. It wasn't a direct comparison to Imra.

Issue number?

Although, Emma has decent showings against Xavier. She's not as far down the totem pole as you think.

Amped with Phoenix Force, she couldn't control Thor and Red Hulk.

Imra dropped Mon-El and Ultra Boy with one look by literally crushing their subconscious mind while they were controlled by universo.

Emma may get some props for beating unskilled telepaths like Rachel (dumb gal once got turned into a dinosaur by a bottom of the page telepath FFS).

She is hardly anywhere near J'onn or Xavier level. Imra is two levels above that.

As for the illusion scenario, it would launch simultaneously with Jean's TK, which would be a quick draw. Being reasonable to both parties, I can't see Jean doing worse than 5/5. And that's if we throw out her telepathy completely. With it, she doesn't have to be superior to Saturn Girl. Just enough to buy like, 1 second.

We both know when psychics fight, it comes down to TP and not TK.

Originally posted by StyleTime
I wanted to edit this in, but I'm having trouble editing/quoting for some reason. The text just doesn't show up sometimes.

Anyway, here's a reference point if you want to scale for Emma. Xavier has also felt every thought ever conceived in the universe.

https://postimg.org/image/y5bj6h1pn/

She's not Saturn Girl in scope obviously, but her skill allows her to tussle with the high end, Phoenix entity included.

http://readcomiconline.to/Comic/X-Men-1991/Issue-84?id=28416

He didn't even gave TP right before that page.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Issue number?

Amped with Phoenix Force, she couldn't control Thor and Red Hulk.

Imra dropped Mon-El and Ultra Boy with one look by literally crushing their subconscious mind while they were controlled by universo.

Emma may get some props for beating unskilled telepaths like Rachel (dumb gal once got turned into a dinosaur by a bottom of the page telepath FFS).

She is hardly anywhere near J'onn or Xavier level. Imra is two levels above that.

We both know when psychics fight, it comes down to TP and not TK.

True. She couldn't enter their heads until absorbing Namor's portion. Rulk, as with any Hulk really, always has the fallback trope of rage if the writer wants to go there. The Thor thing I'll grant, but meh...comics. Batman resisted Saturn Queen then TKO'd her.

Through direct showings though, Emma is trouble for Xavier, Exodus, and such. Like I said, it's not that she's their equal. It's just that she's skilled enough to tussle when at a power disadvantage. We're saying similar things I guess.

Why would you put Imra two levels above them? She stated Universo's shenanigans made the Legionnaire's minds weak, and Mon/Ultra aren't exactly Superman or Fantomex in tp defense.