Ahsoka Tano vs. Quinlan Vos (Canon)

Well, I didn't remember the exact quote quite right. They never say TCW Ahsoka is > Rebels Ahsoka. Instead, they imply that Rebels Ahsoka hasn't really grown much as a fighter, and has more grown in terms of fighting mentality and spirituality.

Q: How has she grown as a fighter since she left the Order in the Clone Wars?

A, Henry Gilroy: She's extremely skilled. And I think over the years, she's probably had the opportunity to hone her abilities. But there hasn't been as much day-to-day ongoing battling, as she was doing in the Clone Wars. So you could say on some level, while she's become more measured, her growth is more spiritual in nature.

Both Henry Gilroy and Pablo Hidalgo basically say the same thing during this Rebels Recon (Season 2, episode 9). Her fighting style hasn't changed, but she's more in control of it. She's grown in terms of mentality and spirituality, but her actual prowess as a fighter hasn't appreciably grown, just changed gears to something more focused.

At least, that's my interpretation of what they're saying. And it makes perfect sense, too. During the Clone Wars, Ahsoka was using her lightsaber daily, in life-or-death situations on the battlefield. After Order 66, she didn't use a lightsaber again for almost a year. And even after the Ahsoka novel, she wasn't taking part in battlefield combat like she'd been doing before. She was an intel agent for a budding Rebel Alliance. She might have occasionally used it against stormtroopers, maybe, but she wasn't an openly practicing Jedi like Kanan became during Rebels. It was only after Vader learned of Ahsoka's existence in Season 2 that Ahsoka would get the opportunity to engage in another lightsaber duel. Her fight against the Inquisitors was the first lightsaber duel for her in over a decade and a half. It doesn't make sense for her to have grown considerably in lightsaber skill during that time. But spiritually, mentally? Sure, I can totally buy that she's way more capable in those regards.

So, to sum up, I'm of the opinion that Rebels Ahsoka is not more skilled that TCW Ahsoka as a combatant. Just less flashy and more focused. With the massive disparity shown during Ahsoka's fight against Grievous in Season 5, I believe Grievous would still stomp Rebels Ahsoka, with a bit more difficulty, perhaps.

Meanwhile, back on the topic at hand, DD Quinlan Vos jobbed Grievous hard. The fight was less than a minute long, and Vos almost immediately managed to disarm Grievous. This is the same Grievous who has defeated Jedi Master Depa Billaba twice, defeated Adi Gallia in seconds (mostly off-screen during one of the droid-centric episodes of TCW), defeated Obi-Wan Kenobi (and nearly defeated him multiple times), and contended well with Assaj Ventress near her prime. DD Quinlan Vos beat Dooku. I don't know what else we need to say in this thread. Rebels Ahsoka isn't beating Dooku. She's not on that level. Vos is.

Nothing in the quote implies she didn't grow lal. It even acknowldges the possibility she honed her skills. This is pretty desperate stretching lal. And no grievous wouldn't stomp someone who's driven back Maul on a nexus.

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
Nothing in the quote implies she didn't grow lal. It even acknowldges the possibility she honed her skills. This is pretty desperate stretching lal. And no grievous wouldn't stomp someone who's driven back Maul on a nexus.

The fact that the question is, "How has she grown as a fighter?" and his response is "Her growth is more spiritual in nature" is what implies she didn't grow as a fighter. Yes, the quote implies she's had time to hone her skills. You know who else had time to hone their skills? Old Ben Kenobi. Yet people make the same argument for why RotS Kenobi is > than ANH Kenobi.

RotS Kenobi spent three years at war against the CIS, during which time he tested his skills daily and kept his skills sharp. After Order 66, he didn't have anyone to train with, and he didn't have a war to fight. Therefore, his skills grew rusty, and while he definitely grew spiritually and grew in terms of the Force, he was weaker as a combatant.

Ahsoka spent three years at war against the CIS, during which time she tested her skills daily and kept her skills sharp. After Order 66, she didn't have anyone to train with, and wasn't fighting an open war, instead working as an intel agent. Therefore, it makes sense to believe her skills grew rusty, and while she definitely grew spiritually and grew in terms of the Force, it makes perfect sense for her to be weaker as a combatant.

Can you not see the parallels here? She was basically brought into Rebels to be a parallel to Ben Kenobi. Wise older mentor who seems to be ready to guide the main characters in their paths to explore the ways of the Jedi, only to seemingly die by Vader's hand shortly after they were introduced into the story, yet 'survive' due to some obscure Force ability.

And even if I am wrong about Rebels Ahsoka not being far stronger than TCW Ahsoka, I still can't picture Rebels Ahsoka nearly defeating Dooku, the way that Quinlan Vos did (twice) in Dark Disciple. So we can go back and forth all you want over whether or not Ahsoka grew more powerful, but I have yet to see any argument placing her on Vos' level, which is the point of this thread.

As for Ahsoka driving Maul back on a Nexus, first off: Maul in Rebels is weaker than he's ever been. It was Sam Witwer who was the one to basically state this in a Rebels Recon. His words to Ezra when they first met, about Maul having grown weak, were true to a degree. Maul's lines about being old and weak, and no longer having the power he did, are true. It's not just a deception to fool Ezra into helping him, it's deception laced with sincerity.

Second: It's more accurate to say that Ahsoka held her ground against Maul for 20 seconds on Malachor, before retreating and leaving a recently blinded Kanan to deal with Maul. 20 seconds really isn't a meaningful length of time in the realm of Star Wars duels. Nearly every duel on screen has lasted for far longer than that one. Heck, Finn lasted longer against Kylo Ren, and AotC Kenobi lasted longer against Dooku. These were some of the most one-sided duels we've seen, and yet they lasted longer than Ahsoka stood against Maul. For the very few seconds we can see Ahsoka and Maul fighting, both are shown giving ground, but ultimately it's Ahsoka who jumps away. To me, the fact that she wasn't willing to stay and trade blows against Maul alongside a blinded Kanan is proof enough that she couldn't hold her own against Rebels Maul for any real length of time.

So basically, Ahsoka hasn't "driven back Maul on a Nexus," she was driven back by Maul, who was weaker than we've seen him at any other point in Star Wars. This just further supports the idea that Grievous would defeat her, or at the very least, it would be a close fight between the two. And yet again, this still doesn't put her anywhere near Vos in terms of ability, as he completely jobbed Grievous in Dark Disciple, in under a minute.

Spiritual growth is a pretty big factor for a Jedi/Lightsider actually.

Shitface Filoni attributes Rebels Kenobi clear superiority over Maul almost exclusively to spiritual growth.

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
someone who's driven back Maul on a nexus.

Stop that nonesense.

^ I was just going to mention that. 👆

Filoni: "I felt strongly Obi-Wan, if he could help it, would really rather not kill Darth Maul. Obi-Wan is at a point, in my mind, where he's become rather enlightened. He's been in the desert discovering who he is, really evolving as a character. He's not that young brash kid that went into a fight with Maul out of anger for the fact his master was killed. It can't be that same situation this is so many years later. Maul, for his part, is pretty much hung up on that exact moment. That's where his life went wrong. He can't let it go."

"It really is to express the difference between the Jedi and the Sith. Which is the Jedi become selfless and the Sith remain selfish," Filoni said. "When pressed, because Obi-Wan is protecting someone else in the end, he does fight. But because he is so true and knows who he is in that moment, you can't defeat that."

^ Yeah that and the other one (perhaps the same interview) where he says he doesnt believe Maul and Kenobi can be equals in Saber combat because Maul never learned to be selfless like Kenobi.

Your quote likely explains it better but Interestingly he never actually attributes Kenobis superiority to superior combat skill or natural ability in the Force.

It seems to be more to do with a greater connection to the light side. Something Post ROTS Yoda and Obi-Wan pass onto Luke in spades.

So yeah, Ahsoka growing spiritually IS Ahsoka growing more powerful.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Stop that nonesense.

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
I apologize that the source material doesn't gel with your fan theories.

The irony of you saying this.