POLL - Darth Malak w/ Star Forge vs Exar Kun (VOTE!)

In the past, my constant issue with debating Malak is simply the lack of material on him. While I can definitely see him as far more powerful than Kun without the quote, it's hard to argue in a debate setting without something so meretriciously concrete. With the Star Forge quote in place, it just provides fresh perspective for us to look back and reconsider some of the strange feats he has - such as handling the Star Forge infinitely greater than the Exiles did the Star Maps, blocking a planet-cleansing disturbance in the Force from the Jedi, his mere thoughts rippling out as a disturbance in the Force, his powers just so laughably surpassing mid-game Revan's, being labeled as "virtually unstoppable" by starwars.com, having powers "out of proportion" of the standard d20 stats, etc.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
tl;dr me then

Basically, as you said, Malak lacks material as a duelist. Ranking him higher than his feats portray him falls into the realm of conjecture.

His superior command over the Force doesn't necessarily grant him any edge in physicals either. He still lost to Revan in a duel twice on the Leviathan and was forced to resort to his Force abilities to end the engagement both times - against Kun, I'm not convinced he's powerful enough to simply ragdoll or Force stun him as he managed against Revan. Malak is also vastly more powerful than Bandon (easily one-shot range), yet the latter was stated to not have met his equal with a blade until Revan.

Kun on the other hand has an impressive and numerous assortment of feats and accolades that place him out of Malak's - or anyone Malak's fought - league in terms of raw skill, on top of his prodigious physicals that leave Malak in the dust, and a highly unorthodox fighting style and weapon, which to make it clear, is radically dissimilar to the traditional saber staff. Also, don't treat this as fact, since I have no source other than anecdotes, but I've frequently heard Kun's armor is made out of cortosis, providing him with margin for error should Malak's blade pierce his guard. It would also short out Malak's own weapon should he strike it, and given Kun's trickster mentality and Tràkata tactics, he might just intentionally leave an opening for Malak to exploit, only for the latter find out he's been duped fatally.

All in all, Kun's just the more impressive fighter, even if Malak is more powerful.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
In the past, my constant issue with debating Malak is simply the lack of material on him.

And that what we know of him makes him a chump?

While I can definitely see him as far more powerful than Kun without the quote

Well that's easy for the guy who's respect thread claims Revan is > Kun based of comments from people who've never met Exar and thought that Revan was their finest student. It's called thinking with your dick.

With the Star Forge quote in place, it just provides fresh perspective for us to look back and reconsider some of the strange feats he has

It provides the perspective of Cory hendon's personal opinion on his blog. And a the means to look back at Malak's feats and ask what that guy was smoking when he asserted what he asserted.

such as handling the Star Forge infinitely greater than the Exiles did the Star Maps,

False equivalency. None of this tells me that Malak has more personal power than Muur or Pall for example. Just that their order was comprised of more competitive individuals willing to fight each other for dominance. EG : like Malak betraying Revan. And in the end, all sith groups were prone to infighting for whatever reason. There's really no direct comparison between Malak and any one exile other than that he had a better weapon.

blocking a planet-cleansing disturbance in the Force from the Jedi

I'm not sure what this is, so you'll have to elaborate.

his mere thoughts rippling out as a disturbance in the Force,

In other words, he can communicate with other force users via the force.

his powers just so laughably surpassing mid-game Revan's, being labeled as "virtually unstoppable" by starwars.com

Just as Kun was "virtually unstoppable" in combat thanks to his power and skill.

having powers "out of proportion" of the standard d20 stats, etc. [/B]

Which are meant for gamaeplay purposes only. Not used as a power chart to confirm which characters are better than others.

DA just stop! Being a retard doesn't do you any good.

@Az: Good stuff. Since you said you're not interested in debates until the summer, should I not respond?

@JMANGO: Will respond in full.

@FNadd: If we polled every single member of KMC active in the last five years, not one wouldn't put you down as an actual retard. 95% of your posts are either outright ignored or, in the off-chance someone reads them, filled with the stupidest shit. I've never seen anyone say the slightest positive compliment to any post here. Every moment you make on KMC is the same as you opening a .txt file and writing in it there, just sometimes Microsoft gets pissed off and tells you how awful you are at everything. It amazes me you have the consistent audacity to insult anyone and everyone that you disagree with. It's like the kid with Down syndrome walking into a club and telling everyone they're a brick. Frankly, just leave.

You can reply if you wish. If your rebuttal's brief, I might write something in response. Don't count on it, though.

And yeah, go **** yourself, Freedumb. I have you on ignore and haven't opened a post from you in weeks, and that's a habit I don't plan on changing. So you're just wasting your time by addressing anything I say.

Kbro and Legend are probably more intelligent than Freedumb, honestly.

---

Malak isn't just stronger than Kun, he's far more powerful than him. I feel that distinction is dismissed by you too easily.

- Force augmentation is Force augmentation. Simply being more powerful than Kun may not mean he's stronger, faster, etc., but being far more powerful rather clearly places him beyond Kun in that regard, not to mention Malak clearly has a high physical base.

- I forget our last conversation about - why did you reject the prima guide again?

- No, it's said Bandon has yet to find his equal in combat pre-KOTOR, not that Revan was the first equal he ever fought. You're mixing it up with the Calo Nord quote.

- Nothing states Kun's armor is cortosis-weaved. A second light-battle suit found by Yavin traders has a cortosis weave, but it's stated that it's unknown Kun ever even wore it.

- Will get into the technical specifics later.

- What distinction is there? The word "far"?

- How? What? I could find several examples of people who have similar physicals but are on a vastly different level of power: Luke and Vader in RotJ, Dooku and Yoda in AotC (were around even in strength), Obi-Wan and Dooku in RotS, Obi-Wan/Qui-Gon and Maul in TPM, and the list goes on.

- You never showed me the statement from the Prima Guide

- You misunderstood what I was saying; I wasn't claiming "until Revan" was part of the quote. Now that I took a look at it again, though, it would seem it's restricted to Jedi. Not grammatically per se, but it'd be pretty odd to have Bandon as a superior overall combatant to Malak when everything else point to Malak being the MVP of the Sith at the time.

- Can you get the exact statement?

- Yeah?

- There's definitely inconsistencies - especially in the movies since Lucas doesn't give a damn about that shit and it's up to the EU writers to reconcile it all - but I'd disagree with all your examples. Kenobi's comparable to Dooku in power, although Dooku's superior power is shown via unleashing a telekinetic attack faster than Kenobi can react. A majority of sources, especially higher sources, put Yoda beyond Dooku in strength - it's really the tertiary sources that allude otherwise. I'd argue Luke is just as powerful as Vader, but regardless Fightsaber identifies his raw potential vastly increasing his instincts and reaction times (similar to how TPM Anakin can operate at speeds way beyond the normal human). With Maul vs Kenobi and Jinn, there's ought to be a dozen different accounts of the fight, ranging from Maul dominating them with physicals to them legitimately contending. Until an extensive collection and analysis of all the sources have been assembled like I did with Yoda vs Dooku, using it is kinda cherrypicking. Sorry that's long, so we can agree to disagree on that.

- I think I showed you the prima guide noting Revan is just trying to take the brunt of Malak's attacks and that Malak will leave the room after he's beaten Revan down enough.

- Eesh, the quote is obviously not suggesting Bandon is a superior combatant to Malak. That's just beyond absurd. The context is clearly stating he never found an equal of the Jedi he's fought.

- "Whether or not Kun ever actually wore the armor, no one can say for sure."

I thought Exar Kun = DE Sidious though mmm

- "Far more powerful" is still kind of arbitrary.

- Sure, that's fine. We can agree to disagree for now.

- No, you never showed it to me. Got a full scan/picture?

- Yeah, that's just what I concluded above.

- Full scan/picture and source, please?

- Not really. It means Malak's pretty grossly more powerful.

- -

- Combat begins against Darth Malak. You must inflict 100 points of damage on him while he attacks with the full force of a Dark Jedi Lord. Carth and Bastila are left almost helpless, while you bear the brunt of Malak’s strikes; try to attack from afar. After he causes enough damage, Malak returns through the blast door, and seals it behind him.

- -

- Why?

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
@Az: Good stuff. Since you said you're not interested in debates until the summer, should I not respond?

@JMANGO: Will respond in full.

@FNadd: If we polled every single member of KMC active in the last five years, not one wouldn't put you down as an actual retard. 95% of your posts are either outright ignored or, in the off-chance someone reads them, filled with the stupidest shit. I've never seen anyone say the slightest positive compliment to any post here. Every moment you make on KMC is the same as you opening a .txt file and writing in it there, just sometimes Microsoft gets pissed off and tells you how awful you are at everything. It amazes me you have the consistent audacity to insult anyone and everyone that you disagree with. It's like the kid with Down syndrome walking into a club and telling everyone they're a brick. Frankly, just leave.

Because this entire Star Wars KMC is mostly a forum of intellectual retards. If you cannot beat them. Troll them.

And I am pretty sure I have commented at various posts(talking about serious stuff)

You're just pissed off because Exar Kun>Malak.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
I thought Exar Kun = DE Sidious though mmm

Originally posted by Azronger
You can reply if you wish. If your rebuttal's brief, I might write something in response. Don't count on it, though.

And yeah, go **** yourself, Freedumb. I have you on ignore and haven't opened a post from you in weeks, and that's a habit I don't plan on changing. So you're just wasting your time by addressing anything I say.

Yes, because you know your posts are the definition of 'shit' and you don't want to get criticized by certain users for what you 'work'. Just because you put me on 'ignore' list that doesn't mean I am done with it. I am still gonna argue with your 'arguments' whenever I see you write something stupid. Putting people on ignore list just further proves me you don't handle being criticized.

Originally posted by Azronger
Kbro and Legend are probably more intelligent than Freedumb, honestly.

They are. You are shit, though. 🙂
(In the near future stop calling me 'shit'. Remember that you are the shittiest of them all. Your Palpatine's no dick thread is a proof)

lmfao what a cringefest. Nadd's posting history is possibly the saddest thing I've seen on KMC.

Originally posted by Freedon Nadd
Because this entire Star Wars KMC is mostly a forum of intellectual retards. If you cannot beat them. Troll them.

You can't beat a bunch of intellectual retards?

Just leave.

And I am pretty sure I have commented at various posts(talking about serious stuff)

You have, but your contributions weren't thought of as actually contributional by anyone.

Literally, go and make a thread poll asking for one person to say otherwise.

You're just pissed off because Exar Kun>Malak.

The "you're just mad" comeback aside, the majority of the forum agrees with me that Malak > Kun. Compared to a poll like this a year ago, I am beyond happy with the current situation.