Zeus (DC) vs. Grandmaster

Started by abhilegend3 pages
Originally posted by Baziemarc123
Because Maestro had the Iso-Sphere?

Actually Grandmaster had Iso sphere. Grandmaster also backed down from Monica Rambeau as well in his own home.

Originally posted by abhilegend
That's not what Metron said.

So no conclusive proof for your claims then? Even you must admit that your interpretation is ambiguous at best.

And either way why are you equating restoration with space/time manipulation? Your feats count as matter manipulation, all they did is put the system back to its previous state (which i guess counts as entropic manipulation as well). And resurrecting people isn't space/time manipulation either. It's jump-starting neutrons again or soul manipulation depending if the writer takes a reductionist or non-reductionist approach to this matter.

You are confused as to what exactly entails space/time or reality warping. Im assuming you're not familiar with special/general relativity? Einstein taught us that space and time are malleable things just like matter is; space/time is continuous and not quantized like matter is but nonetheless it can be warped (hence there are things called length contraction and time dilation). What you're posting is merely matter/atomic manipulation, non of these instances entails manipulating space-time or reality.

Originally posted by abhilegend

Would you like to share these reality warping feats for Grandmaster?

Original GM was an absolute beast. He could literally wipe beings from existence, as if they never even existed. And he could have done it to the whole planet too:

https://imgur.com/bJtln3b
https://imgur.com/ouo7ILE

He has almost complete control over space/time and able to alter history as he deems it to be:

https://imgur.com/5tilBux

He granted Kang the power to casually beat the avengers and cap mentioned that his power is greater than even the cosmic cube:

https://imgur.com/Yupd4Gf

When Makkari went into hyperspeed mode and beat the runner, he got stuck in that mode and everyone appeared to him as statues, except other speedsters or beings who can actually manipulate space/time like the Grandmaster:

https://imgur.com/pJorq8o

He can create things out of nothing:

https://imgur.com/lwt6Pxz

A reality re-writer indeed:

https://imgur.com/u1blQqu

When you look at GM and compare him with highfather and ganthet, it's quite clear that they have different power sets.

Originally posted by abhilegend

Surfer or Hal have not restored entire planets after they are devastated.

Hal has literally re-structured the JLA members atom by atom when they were vaporized with a molecular de-adhesion gun. It's the exact same as your feats only on a smaller scale. And either way, Kyle has re-created an entire world in GL annual #6. And silver surfer has restored a planet in silver surfer v3 #104 and in v5 #14.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Also Grandmaster creating Squadron Sinister was retconned as him tapping into a wellspring of power.

So much for reality warping.

Why does it matter what's his power source? Do we say Dr Strange can't call upon principalities in a forum fight? Because if not he'd be technically powerless. Or better yet, do you see me saying that HF can't use his staff which taps into the power of the source? Because without it he's weak as sh*t.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Highfather has cut apart space/time as well to show another cosmos where he could've banished Orion.

http://readcomiconline.to/Comic/The-New-Gods-1995/Issue-8?id=88511

cutting time/space in comics usually means opening portals, you should know that by now. And while that technically is space/time maipulation, it's a minor thing to do and doesn't make you a reality warper. Thor does it on the regular.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Actually Grandmaster had Iso sphere. Grandmaster also backed down from Monica Rambeau as well in his own home.
I don’t recall him backing down and Monica isn’t exactly an slouch, remember she did beat a tiny fraction of shuns before

Originally posted by operator616
So no conclusive proof for your claims then? Even you must admit that your interpretation is ambiguous at best.

Right, these are ambiguous but not for grandmaster.

And either way why are you equating restoration with space/time manipulation? Your feats count as matter manipulation, all they did is put the system back to its previous state (which i guess counts as entropic manipulation as well). And resurrecting people isn't space/time manipulation either. It's jump-starting neutrons again or soul manipulation depending if the writer takes a reductionist or non-reductionist approach to this matter.

Uh-huh. Only what you say is reality manipulation. Nothing else counts.

You are confused as to what exactly entails space/time or reality warping. Im assuming you're not familiar with special/general relativity? Einstein taught us that space and time are malleable things just like matter is; space/time is continuous and not quantized like matter is but nonetheless it can be warped (hence there are things called length contraction and time dilation). What you're posting is merely matter/atomic manipulation, non of these instances entails manipulating space-time or reality.

Thanks for the science lecture for the thing I already know.

Original GM was an absolute beast. He could literally wipe beings from existence, as if they never even existed. And he could have done it to the whole planet too:

https://imgur.com/bJtln3b
https://imgur.com/ouo7ILE

Yes, from his original appearance where every villain shines. This ability never shows up again.

He has almost complete control over space/time and able to alter history as he deems it to be:

https://imgur.com/5tilBux

Retconned away.

He granted Kang the power to casually beat the avengers and cap mentioned that his power is greater than even the cosmic cube:

https://imgur.com/Yupd4Gf

Silver age hyperbole at its best.

When Makkari went into hyperspeed mode and beat the runner, he got stuck in that mode and everyone appeared to him as statues, except other speedsters or beings who can actually manipulate space/time like the Grandmaster:

https://imgur.com/pJorq8o

Not reality warping. Someone like Zoom can do better than that.

He can create things out of nothing:

https://imgur.com/lwt6Pxz

That's like GL lite.

A reality re-writer indeed:

https://imgur.com/u1blQqu

Right, being mentioned in a sentence with actual reality warper makes you a reality warper when Grandmaster has never done something like that.

When you look at GM and compare him with highfather and ganthet, it's quite clear that they have different power sets.

No, they are all plot devices who can do pretty much anything story requires. Ganthet has literally ripped space time apart with his bare hands.

Hal has literally re-structured the JLA members atom by atom when they were vaporized with a molecular de-adhesion gun. It's the exact same as your feats only on a smaller scale. And either way, Kyle has re-created an entire world in GL annual #6. And silver surfer has restored a planet in silver surfer v3 #104 and in v5 #14.

Kyle was in such a realm where imagine could create substance.

Surfer didn't restore any planet in either SS 104 or v5 14. What are you talking about?

Why does it matter what's his power source? Do we say Dr Strange can't call upon principalities in a forum fight? Because if not he'd be technically powerless. Or better yet, do you see me saying that HF can't use his staff which taps into the power of the source? Because without it he's weak as sh*t.

Because both Strange and Highfather use that power in pretty much every appearance and if they aren't, it's explicitly mentioned.

Grandmaster doesn't. This is just nonsense you're talking now.

cutting time/space in comics usually means opening portals, you should know that by now. And while that technically is space/time maipulation, it's a minor thing to do and doesn't make you a reality warper. Thor does it on the regular.

Right, when Grandmaster does it, it's reality manipulation but when highfather does it, it isn't.

Originally posted by Baziemarc123
I don’t recall him backing down and Monica isn’t exactly an slouch, remember she did beat a tiny fraction of shuns before

You haven't read much I guess then.

Oh I forgot, everyone in marvel is skyfather level now.

Originally posted by abhilegend
You haven't read much I guess then.

Oh I forgot, everyone in marvel is skyfather level now.

Well unless you can show it, and Zemo with moonstone is op af

Originally posted by Baziemarc123
Well unless you can show it, and Zemo with moonstone is op af

Right.

http://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Contest-of-Champions-2015/Issue-7?id=38864

Right, Zemo was such a powerhouse. Skyfather material, right?

I thought Zeus would have more feats to make this competitive if we included pre-flashpoint...disappointed.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Right.

http://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Contest-of-Champions-2015/Issue-7?id=38864

Right, Zemo was such a powerhouse. Skyfather material, right?

“Yes but it wouldn’t be any fun”. That’s not backing down but he did mention about his recent loss but who was that to

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I thought Zeus would have more feats to make this competitive if we included pre-flashpoint...disappointed.

Right, because Grandmaster has so many.
Originally posted by Baziemarc123
“Yes but it wouldn’t be any fun”. That’s not backing down but he did mention about his recent loss but who was that to

That's just cowards talk. He backed down in his own home from Ultimates.

Originally posted by Baziemarc123
What's his other low showings besides the Hulk one in recent marvel?

Wouldnt consider being hurt by a pissed Hulk a low showing.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Right, because Grandmaster has so many.
That's just cowards talk. He backed down in his own home from Ultimates.
Zemo with moonstone isn’t Op?

Originally posted by Baziemarc123
Zemo with moonstone isn’t Op?

For what tier?

Originally posted by abhilegend
For what tier?
I’m asking you, what makes you think he’s not high tier

Originally posted by Baziemarc123
I’m asking you, what makes you think he’s not high tier

He is high herald level, nothing more.

Originally posted by abhilegend
He is high herald level, nothing more.
Exactly Zemo with moonstone is high herald level