Originally posted by Nevan
I'm giving you one more chance to admit that you're wrong, if you refuse it you can't pull the "I was only pretending" later.
From my estimates, Surtur was between 85m and 110m when Hulk struck him.. This is assuming Hulk is about 2.6m tall. Also it appears that Surtur doesn’t have the same density as a human. He appeared to be made of a lot of heat/flame stuff. So we can’t be sure to accurately estimate his mass based off unknown density.
Then we have real life humans able to punch another human to get the same effect. Only the striking human exerted significantly less force than the struck human’s weight.
But here’s the kicker. Hulk wasn’t able to budge Surtur with the next punches. That means Hulk’s downward (due to falling) momentum PLUS weight contributed majorly to the blow.
And if you think Superman can’t achieve the same feat then you are a fool.
Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbeFqlse, if you watch that films that’s a hilariously biased and wishful thinking theory you’d like us to agree with. Nah, he’s been hurt by far less strength in WW who was threatened by World War One soldiers. Hulk brutalizes him.
Superman from the Movies vs Hulk from the movies would most likely go like the PC Supes vs Hulk crossover. Hulk wouldn't be able to hurt supes and supes could break his neck or ko him like the Hulkbuster did.
Originally posted by h1a8
From my estimates, Surtur was between 85m and 110m when Hulk struck him.. This is assuming Hulk is about 2.6m tall. Also it appears that Surtur doesn’t have the same density as a human. He appeared to be made of a lot of heat/flame stuff. So we can’t be sure to accurately estimate his mass based off unknown density.Then we have real life humans able to punch another human to get the same effect. Only the striking human exerted significantly less force than the struck human’s weight.
But here’s the kicker. Hulk wasn’t able to budge Surtur with the next punches. That means Hulk’s downward (due to falling) momentum PLUS weight contributed majorly to the blow.
And if you think Superman can’t achieve the same feat then you are a fool.
Why don't you try scaling him to the palace that dwarfs mountains?
Surtur is quite solid, we know he is made of molten slag from other interviews and that he has muscles, so even if you want to say he's only 100 meters tall that would still dwarf Superman's presented feats.
Hulk himself had to jump multiple KM to get to Surtur and to jump to Sokovia and he's much heavier than Superman or Zod, hos you think them being punched a shorter distance while weighting less is more impressive is beyond me.
Originally posted by Nevan
So are you going to ignore Surtur's officially stted size, even though it's consistent with his size relative to Asgard?Why don't you try scaling him to the palace that dwarfs mountains?
Surtur is quite solid, we know he is made of molten slag from other interviews and that he has muscles, so even if you want to say he's only 100 meters tall that would still dwarf Superman's presented feats.
Hulk himself had to jump multiple KM to get to Surtur and to jump to Sokovia and he's much heavier than Superman or Zod, hos you think them being punched a shorter distance while weighting less is more impressive is beyond me.
I said WHEN HULK PUNCHED HIM.
Now if Surtur grew more after that then I don't care.
I painstakingly calculated his height at the time of the punch. His head was the length of 4-5 Hulk heights. Hulk is about 2.6 meters. Go with that.
Being made of molten rock is speculation. It look more like flame and ash to me.
After the first punch, each additional punch did absolutely nothing to move him. So that could mean Hulk's downward momentum along with Hulk's weight did most of the work.
Originally posted by h1a8
I said WHEN HULK PUNCHED HIM.
Now if Surtur grew more after that then I don't care.
I painstakingly calculated his height at the time of the punch. His head was the length of 4-5 Hulk heights. Hulk is about 2.6 meters. Go with that.Being made of molten rock is speculation. It look more like flame and ash to me.
After the first punch, each additional punch did absolutely nothing to move him. So that could mean Hulk's downward momentum along with Hulk's weight did most of the work.
If you want to dismiss that you can't bring author intention or statements in other debates.
The vfx also state that he's made from magma, so you're also wrong on that.
Want to try to calculate how much a 100 meter giant made of molten rock would weight, even going by your scaling?
By the way you ignored how he compares to Asgard's structures, you can compare him to the palace since he first appears on Asgard.
Surtur is meant to be an imposing presence, filled with crusted magma flesh, 18-feet tall. Surtar was created entirely with keyframe animation. Method artists created the giant fiery beast by using geometry as a base, and by running textures through a muscle system to give directionality to the magma, which was then lightened for depth._
Even the homepage of the Studio that did it states it.
https://www.methodstudios.com/en/features/thor-ragnarok/ ://
Method also provided concept art, fleshed out Surtur’s writhing and crusted magma flesh, and refined CG characters including the dragon, fire demons and E-Guard soldiers, as well as large-scale environments._
Originally posted by Nevan
Mega Surtur was 800 meters tall when he first appeared, ergo before hulk punched him, the same quote I quoted states that 800 meters was his smallest size.If you want to dismiss that you can't bring author intention or statements in other debates.
The vfx also state that he's made from magma, so you're also wrong on that.
Want to try to calculate how much a 100 meter giant made of molten rock would weight, even going by your scaling?
By the way you ignored how he compares to Asgard's structures, you can compare him to the palace since he first appears on Asgard.
Even the homepage of the Studio that did it states it.
https://www.methodstudios.com/en/features/thor-ragnarok/ ://
You are basically stating that writer's intented for Surtur to be 800m when Hulk struck him? Prove it. Because
1. Surtur was about 100m as shown.
2. Surtur was still growing after Hulk hit him.
And you are unreasonable to assume character's, in fiction, exert nearly the same force everytime. There are so many examples where this isn't true that I will be counting for days. Here is one of them:
Hulk punching Surtur and making him bend vs. punching him, IMMEDIATELY AFTER, and not making him budge.
Hulk is about half a ton. It was his weight and falling momentum that supplied the majority of the force. Otherwise, you can't explain away why his latter punches did absolutely nothing (since your stance is that character's use nearly the same force everytime).
He has proven it, the company that provided the special effects for the movie have flat out stated that he was 800 meters tall at the beginning and grew to 4000 meters by the time he destroyed Asgard.
You're being your normal hypocritical self, IE over-analyzing a scene in order to lowball a character you're arguing against. However when it's a character you're for, you have gone on record as stating we should ignore what the movie shows and instead go with what you claim was the writer's intention.
Originally posted by Silent Master
He has proven it, the company that provided the special effects for the movie have flat out stated that he was 800 meters tall at the beginning and grew to 4000 meters by the time he destroyed Asgard.You're being your normal hypocritical self, IE over-analyzing a scene in order to lowball a character you're arguing against. However when it's a character you're for, you have gone on record as stating we should ignore what the movie shows and instead go with what you claim was the writer's intention.
Originally posted by h1a8
It can not be. It is off by 700%.
Thats too LARGE of an error for an ON PURPOSE 800m in height.
No calculations were done on Surtur's height when making the film. Thus, it was a random number thrown out.
Originally posted by Silent Master
The people that did the special effects >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you.
Originally posted by h1a8
That has absolutely nothing to do with what I said.Surtur wasn't 800m because they weren't thinking about his actual height in numbers when creating him. Otherwise, you wouldn't have such a large error. Making up a random number AFTER the fact does not hold any water.
And according to you, what's shown >>>>>interviews (which aren't allowed).
Originally posted by h1a8
I mathematically proved that the leviathan punch was under 200 tons of force. That's assuming the leviathan weighed 1000 tons.[B]For those who are not adept in physics, here you go.
Note: The Leviathan is probably somewhere between 200-500 tons. Let’s just say 1000 tons for the sake of argument. That way, no one should have a problem.How much force does it take to stop a 1000ton object moving at 20m/s in 10 seconds?
Force = change in momentum/ change in time
= (1000ton * 20m/s) /(10s)
= (907185kg * 20m/s) /(10s)
= 1.81e6 N
= 204 tons of forceSo assuming Hulk wasn’t bracing (allowing the concrete to supply the pushing or stopping force) then its a 204 ton feat at the most.
But the reality is that the concrete was supplying the majority of the stopping force as Hulk’s arm was extended through the majority of the feat (he did give a little push here and there though). So the feat is significantly less than 204 tons.
[/B]
This is a complete oversimplification of what occurred in the Leviathan punch and you are missing a very important factor in your computations.
The deceleration wasn't a constant in that scenario. It wasn't a slow constant push, but a sudden deceleration (via a punch), spreading it over a constant within 10 seconds is factually wrong.
The sudden deceleration occured exactly 1:17-1:18 wheras the Leviathan was moving at 20 m/s (your numbers not mine) and suddenly slowed to (based on Hulk's starting distance and distance traveled from 1:18-1:28) around 1 m/s.