Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
H1, I have multiple times demand you to bring me such calculations and you have never brought them.Please do so.
How much force does it take to stop a 500ton object moving at 20m/s in 10 seconds?
Force = change in momentum/ change in time
= (500ton * 20m/s) /(10s)
= (453592.5kg * 20m/s) /(10s)
= 9.07e5 N
= 102 tons of force
If it takes 102tons of force to stop then it takes 102 tons to get it moving at that speed in that amount of time. So this is 204 tons of force total.
So assuming Hulk wasn't bracing (allowing the concrete to supply the pushing or stopping force) then its a 204 ton feat at the most.
But the reality is that the concrete was supplying the majority of the stopping force as Hulk's arm was extended through the majority of the feat (he did give a little push here and there though). So the feat is significantly less than 204 tons.
Originally posted by Nibedicus
This is a complete oversimplification of what occurred in the Leviathan punch and you are missing a very important factor in your computations.The deceleration wasn't a constant in that scenario. It wasn't a slow constant push, but a sudden deceleration (via a punch), spreading it over a constant within 10 seconds is factually wrong.
The sudden deceleration occured exactly 1:17-1:18 wheras the Leviathan was moving at 20 m/s (your numbers not mine) and suddenly slowed to (based on Hulk's starting distance and distance traveled from 1:18-1:28) around 1 m/s.
Originally posted by Nibedicus
Actually, reviewing the video and running it over and over again, (using the signpost and car as frames of reference @ 1:19-1:20) it looks closer to about 4m/s within the first 2 seconds then drops off to 1m/s @ 1:20 and beyond.Basis: Car is about 5m in length. Hulk started at 1m behind car and street sign was around 1 car length @ 1:18 and ended at around a little less than 2 car lengths @ 1:20 behind the sign. Speed drastically drops off at 1:20 til full stop while the Leviathan's tail gets whipped into the air. This is the low end.
If we use Hulk as the basis (who is around 2.5 meters in height, according to some numbers), the lamp post is about under 3 hulk distance, 2.8 it looks like from the lamp post. Seems to be a discrepancy of about 33% give or take.
Have been trying to get the right velocity of the Leviathan. Funny enough the 20 m/s guesstimatge isn't so far off.
At exactly 0:59, Iron Man was chased by the Leviathan down a street and crossed (what looks like) about 6 car lengths (30m) from 0:59-1:00.
So a range from 20-30 m/s is as close as I can get it from the video.
So ending velocity of 4-6m/s from 20m/s-30m/s.
Edit. From the top view @ 1:22 it actually looks like 1 (so 4-5m not 6) car's distance is the more accurate measurement based on Hulk's position relative to the street sign.
Originally posted by h1a8
How much force does it take to stop a 500ton object moving at 20m/s in 10 seconds?
Force = change in momentum/ change in time
= (500ton * 20m/s) /(10s)
= (453592.5kg * 20m/s) /(10s)
= 9.07e5 N
= 102 tons of forceIf it takes 102tons of force to stop then it takes 102 tons to get it moving at that speed in that amount of time. So this is 204 tons of force total.
So assuming Hulk wasn't bracing (allowing the concrete to supply the pushing or stopping force) then its a 204 ton feat at the most.
But the reality is that the concrete was supplying the majority of the stopping force as Hulk's arm was extended through the majority of the feat (he did give a little push here and there though). So the feat is significantly less than 204 tons.
I already reply to your calculations in the Hulk vs Superman thread.
Originally posted by h1a8
How much force does it take to stop a 500ton object moving at 20m/s in 10 seconds?
Force = change in momentum/ change in time
= (500ton * 20m/s) /(10s)
= (453592.5kg * 20m/s) /(10s)
= 9.07e5 N
= 102 tons of forceIf it takes 102tons of force to stop then it takes 102 tons to get it moving at that speed in that amount of time. So this is 204 tons of force total.
So assuming Hulk wasn't bracing (allowing the concrete to supply the pushing or stopping force) then its a 204 ton feat at the most.
But the reality is that the concrete was supplying the majority of the stopping force as Hulk's arm was extended through the majority of the feat (he did give a little push here and there though). So the feat is significantly less than 204 tons.
This is how you should have done it H1. Since you forgot to add Deceleration into the formula:
Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
[B] Okay I will show you how it's done H1.First of all you clearly forgot about deceleration which plays an important role here.
Force Formula: F = m * a where Force = mass * acceleration
Now we need to find acceleration therefore we use the formula:
Vf^2 = Vi2 + 2AX where Vf = Final Velocity , Vi= Initial Velocity, A = Acceleration and X = distance
We know that Vf = 0 because the leviathan stopped. Vi= 20m/s and distance = 8m (If you look at the scene, you'll notice that the Leviathan stopped very quickly. At a distance of approx 8m.)
If we manipulate the formula you end up with:
A = [- (Vi)^2]/ [2(X)]
A = [ - (20m/s)^2] / [2(8)]
A = -25m/s2*Note that we have a negative value for Acceleration which translates into deceleration**
Now we substitute into the formula for Force:
F = m * a
F = 907185kg * -25m/s2
F = -22679625 NewtonsThe negative means that you require 22679625 newtons to stop such an object.
22679625 Newtons = 2312678.12 Kg or 2549.29 Tons
Hulk applied 2500 tons of strength in one arm to stop 1000 ton Leviathan moving at 20m/s over 8 meters.
Damn long time i don't do physics 😂 [/B]
Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
This is how you should have done it H1. Since you forgot to add Deceleration into the formula:
Wrong! It took 10 seconds to stop the Leviathan. Just look at the screen with timestamps. That makes the acceleration - 2m/s^2 (not - 25m/s^2). An acceleration of - 25m/s^2 would give a stopping distance over 1250m.
And Hulk didn't supply the majority of the force, it was the concrete.
Originally posted by h1a8
Wrong! It took 10 seconds to stop the Leviathan. Just look at the screen with timestamps. That makes the acceleration - 2m/s^2 (not - 25m/s^2)And Hulk didn't supply the majority of the force, it was the concrete.
We are given the distance the leviathan took to stop. The timing is irrelevant for it could be PIS or the movie just wanted to emphasize on the scene.
Besides, that's a more accurate way of finding the deceleration.
Originally posted by Nibedicus
This is a complete oversimplification of what occurred in the Leviathan punch and you are missing a very important factor in your computations.The deceleration wasn't a constant in that scenario. It wasn't a slow constant push, but a sudden deceleration (via a punch), spreading it over a constant within 10 seconds is factually wrong.
The sudden deceleration occured exactly 1:17-1:18 wheras the Leviathan was moving at 20 m/s (your numbers not mine) and suddenly slowed to (based on Hulk's starting distance and distance traveled from 1:18-1:28) around 1 m/s.
Originally posted by Nibedicus
Actually, reviewing the video and running it over and over again, (using the signpost and car as frames of reference @ 1:19-1:20) it looks closer to about 4m/s within the first 2 seconds then drops off to 1m/s @ 1:20 and beyond.Basis: Car is about 5m in length. Hulk started at 1m behind car and street sign was around 1 car length @ 1:18 and ended at around a little less than 2 car lengths @ 1:20 behind the sign. Speed drastically drops off at 1:20 til full stop while the Leviathan's tail gets whipped into the air. This is the low end.
If we use Hulk as the basis (who is around 2.5 meters in height, according to some numbers), the lamp post is about under 3 hulk distance, 2.8 it looks like from the lamp post. Seems to be a discrepancy of about 33% give or take.
Have been trying to get the right velocity of the Leviathan. Funny enough the 20 m/s guesstimatge isn't so far off.
At exactly 0:59, Iron Man was chased by the Leviathan down a street and crossed (what looks like) about 6 car lengths (30m) from 0:59-1:00.
So a range from 20-30 m/s is as close as I can get it from the video.
So ending velocity of 4-6m/s from 20m/s-30m/s.
Originally posted by Nibedicus
Edit. From the top view @ 1:22 it actually looks like 1 (so 4-5m not 6) car's distance is the more accurate measurement based on Hulk's position relative to the street sign.
Originally posted by Nibedicus
I think your number is closer as h1’s is just ignoring a lot of facts to come up with the lowbally-est estimate possible.And yes, 20-30m/s (leaning closer to 30 than 20) is the speed I got via the timestamped video above.
If you count the time from which the Leviathan appeared to where the Hulk hit it and devide the approx. desitance its definetly above 20.
Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
If you count the time from which the Leviathan appeared to where the Hulk hit it and devide the approx. desitance its definetly above 20.
Hard to get that done without getting the address where they shot it then comparing buildings to get start/end point.
Easiest way is to check the Iron Man chase where the Leviathan crossed around 6 or so car lengths (close to 30m) in one second.