Sentry vs Molecule Man (this is it)

Originally posted by Stoic
Trying to understand how his mental instability would change the fact that Sentry came back and defeated him? What so if he were mentally stable he'd somehow change the outcome of Sentry finding out that he too could manipulate molecules on that level? When Owen invited Galactus into his pocket universe and asked him o take a seat, was he mentally stable? I saw a crack pot. Actually he appeared to be more stable when he lost to the Sentry than he was when he had his conversation with Galactus. I don't think that your argument is strong enough to deny that Sentry legitimately defeated Owen with ease.

He wasn't stable at all. He was imprisoned in the raft which was specifically attributed to his instability. Electro was able to overload the raft's security systems and break out of prison. That should give you an idea that Owen was nowhere near his true power level in that era.

Originally posted by RealityWarper
Molecule Man failed to do what you described.

It wasn't SPIN tech but a power drainer.

Because he was nowhere near his power level.

SPIN tech is a power drainer, genius.

Originally posted by operator616
He wasn't stable at all. He was imprisoned in the raft which was specifically attributed to his instability. Electro was able to overload the raft's security systems and break out of prison. That should give you an idea that Owen was nowhere near his true power level in that era.

That's not the fact to be unstable that lower Owen's power but the beliefs he has in his abilities.

His state of mind still changed after the raft and he was back at full power.

Because he was nowhere near his power level.

SPIN tech is a power drainer, genius.

There is plenty of power drainers in Marvel, honey.

They aren't all SPIN Tech.

I know it's easy to make the amalgam but this power-drainer was specifically called a genetic disruptor. It released a chemical that neutralized mutates.

The SPIN tech is administred via darts.

Originally posted by RealityWarper
That's not the fact to be unstable that lower Owen's power but the beliefs he has in his abilities.

His state of mind still changed after the raft and he was back at full power.

His bio specifically stated that it made his power level "manageable": https://imgur.com/lm2sKWc

He was never at full power in DA. He only had molecular manipulation without his reality warping powers.

Originally posted by RealityWarper

There is plenty of power drainers in Marvel, honey.

They aren't all SPIN Tech.

I know it's easy to make the amalgam but this power-drainer was specifically called a genetic disruptor. It released a chemical that neutralized mutates.

The SPIN tech is administred via darts.

Do you like splitting hairs or something?

It was a power drainer based on Stark tech: https://imgur.com/SJ23CNj

It's just that generally it was referred to as SPIN tech and it was SHIELD and the initiative which weaponized them into darts as i recall and modified later by brigss in his plan to take down all superheroes, but it was all based on Stark's model. And i have no idea how in any way, shape, or form is all this relevant? Sentry got depowered by Stark tech, that's the point.

Originally posted by operator616
His bio specifically stated that it made his power level "manageable": https://imgur.com/lm2sKWc

And that his power-levels are unknow after the Raft.

And that his powers are only limited by his beliefs on his abilities.

He was never at full power in DA. He only had molecular manipulation without his reality warping powers.

He was. He had no disbeliefs in his abilities. He never said that he cannot do something with his powers.

Molecular Manipulation and Reality Warping are two terms for the same power.

Do you like splitting hairs or something?

It was a power drainer based on Stark tech: https://imgur.com/SJ23CNj

FYI, Tony's Armor is also Star Tech...

Well, every technology that Tony uses is Star Tech.

It's just that generally it was referred to as SPIN tech and it was SHIELD and the initiative which weaponized them into darts as i recall and modified later by brigss in his plan to take down all superheroes, but it was all based on Stark's model. And i have no idea how in any way, shape, or form is all this relevant? Sentry got depowered by Stark tech, that's the point.

Where did they say that Briggs modified it into a Genetic Disruptor ? I can't recall it.

It's more the correlation that you made that looked illogical to me.

"Anyway, Stark's SPIN tech depowered sentry so you can be damn sure that a universal scale reality warper can too."

Originally posted by RealityWarper
And that his power-levels are unknow after the Raft.

[B]And that his powers are only limited by his beliefs on his abilities.

He was. He had no disbeliefs in his abilities. He never said that he cannot do something with his powers.

Molecular Manipulation and Reality Warping are two terms for the same power.
" [/B]

The constructs Owen created outright said that Owen wanted to fail and wanted to be found and whatnot, that doesn't sound too stable to me.

No, molecular manipulation is basically matter manipulation. Reality manipulation is similar to space/time manipulation, which is the constituents of the universe itself (the universe is fundamentally made of space/time, not matter/energy which exist inside a universe)

Originally posted by RealityWarper

FYI, Tony's Armor is also Star Tech...

Well, every technology that Tony uses is Star Tech.

You don't say... is there anything else you can tell me, captain obvious?

The point was that he was depowered by something Stark created, is that so hard to understand?

If a human genius (and believe me -- even Stark's tech has its limitations especially compared to alien or future tech) can create something to depower Sentry don't you think a universal reality warper should replicate such a trivial feat? That's the point i was trying to make if it wasn't obvious.

Originally posted by RealityWarper

Where did they say that Briggs modified it into a Genetic Disruptor ? I can't recall it.

It's more the correlation that you made that looked illogical to me.

"Anyway, Stark's SPIN tech depowered sentry so you can be damn sure that a universal scale reality warper can too."

No, briggs had a modified version of it in Avengers academy with which he sought to depower all super heroes, my point was that there were several versions of it but were all based on Stark's model.

Originally posted by Facee
I don't know much about these characters. Can someone post a feat or two? 🙂

Sentry beat Owen, who is second only to Pre Retcon Beyonder and second to none in current continuity.

Thus proving that if a pale clone of Superman can beat anyone, then Superman can beat Sentry, and everyone. Also Herc and Hulk can, since they beat up Sentry too.

You're caught up now, you're welcome. 👆

Hey Op, you should read Angela: Asgard's Assassin. Specifically 3 and 4 and then probably the end. It covers some Odin stuff pertaining to Everything Burns and Surtur

You'd probably pop an interior pimple that shot out of your urethra

😂 sounds something major. What is it? Ill probably read it later on.

Abhi's banishment is near its end though. So whatever it is our happiness will be short lived. 🙁

It says Odin and Freya purged the Surtur fires and then porked and made a Surtur baby because his energy was still lingering in that universe.

More complicated than that but you get the idea

This one time Iron Man created a cyberprogram that wiped the knowledge of his secret identity from every baddie on earth, without any of them knowing they'd been subtly mindphucked... And Molecule Man was among them:

Does that mean Tony's casual tech can preform mindphuckery on universal/multiversal/trans-multiversal/omniversal beings by default!? Boy, I sure hope so. g007_teehee

Reed Richard's and Doom are always d*ck fighting but Stark is cream of the cop. I love that Hickman was able to show that overall all 3 are on the same level, with different abilities. Richard's has the most brain power, but weapon engineering and multi-tasking? Stark is the greatest in the Universe.

Originally posted by One Big Mob
Hey Op, you should read Angela: Asgard's Assassin. Specifically 3 and 4 and then probably the end. It covers some Odin stuff pertaining to Everything Burns and Surtur

You'd probably pop an interior pimple that shot out of your urethra

Originally posted by operator616
😂 sounds something major. What is it? Ill probably read it later on.

Abhi's banishment is near its end though. So whatever it is our happiness will be short lived. 🙁

Yup, all that nonsense of "why wasn't Asgard destroyed!" by poor idiotic Abhilindia was a waste of time:

I liked that Angela, even with the upgrade, wanted no business with Thor at the end.

Once more for brevity:

And Odin's creation of the Nine Realms is referenced again:

Gillen was SO much better than Aaron. He told large, cosmic tales, but with modern day mythological feels to it. The ass-kicking Thor gave to Doom is still in my Top 10 Thor moments ever. He references in the last scan Thor's lungs being able to swallow oceans (Classic mythology) constantly through his work, showing some actual knowledge of the original source material that inspire Kirby/Lee for so long.

Originally posted by RealityWarper

That's not the fact to be unstable that lower Owen's power but the beliefs he has in his abilities.
His state of mind still changed after the raft and he was back at full power.

Nope.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f105/t653484.html

All of that has been debunked there.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Reed Richard's and Doom are always d*ck fighting but Stark is cream of the cop. I love that Hickman was able to show that overall all 3 are on the same level, with different abilities. Richard's has the most brain power, but weapon engineering and multi-tasking? Stark is the greatest in the Universe.

Don't forget Hank, he's done pretty crazy things. Eternity compares the 3 quite nicely: https://imgur.com/tf7sk6W

* this was indeed eternity, and not loki, as ive seen it mentioned before in the forum.

Originally posted by One Big Mob
It says Odin and Freya purged the Surtur fires and then porked and made a Surtur baby because his energy was still lingering in that universe.

More complicated than that but you get the idea

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Yup, all that nonsense of "why wasn't Asgard destroyed!" by poor idiotic Abhilindia was a waste of time:

I liked that Angela, even with the upgrade, wanted no business with Thor at the end.

Once more for brevity:

And Odin's creation of the Nine Realms is referenced again:

Gillen was SO much better than Aaron. He told large, cosmic tales, but with modern day mythological feels to it. The ass-kicking Thor gave to Doom is still in my Top 10 Thor moments ever. He references in the last scan Thor's lungs being able to swallow oceans (Classic mythology) constantly through his work, showing some actual knowledge of the original source material that inspire Kirby/Lee for so long.

Sweet. 👆

It's always good to have confirmation. It sounds interesting so ill be sure to check it out.

I was never a fan of Aaron's either. Not to mention that his recent Dr Strange run is pure trash, imo.

Originally posted by operator616
[B]The constructs Owen created outright said that Owen wanted to fail and wanted to be found and whatnot, that doesn't sound too stable to me.

Owen disapproved what his construct told him, moreover he didn't show any disbelief in his abilities and THIS is the POINT.

Owen can be as cracked as a bag of nuts, if he doesn't show any disbeliefs in his abilities he is fully powered.

No, molecular manipulation is basically matter manipulation. Reality manipulation is similar to space/time manipulation, which is the constituents of the universe itself (the universe is fundamentally made of space/time, not matter/energy which exist inside a universe)

Molecular Manipulation is the manipulation of all forms of matter and energy.

And still, Molecule Man manipulates matter and energy on panel.

The Watcher and Reed Richards confirmed in first Owen appearances that he can control everything.

You don't say... is there anything else you can tell me, captain obvious?

The point was that he was depowered by something Stark created, is that so hard to understand?

If a human genius (and believe me -- even Stark's tech has its limitations especially compared to alien or future tech) can create something to depower Sentry don't you think a universal reality warper should replicate such a trivial feat? That's the point i was trying to make if it wasn't obvious.

The point is that Owen completely annihilated Sentry's body, which is far superior in all aspects to disrupting the genetic code...

No, briggs had a modified version of it in Avengers academy with which he sought to depower all super heroes, my point was that there were several versions of it but were all based on Stark's model.

I think that's another prototype but whatever, that's not the core of the topic.

Owen peak > Sentry peak

Molecule Man>>>>any sentry.

Originally posted by One Big Mob
It says Odin and Freya purged the Surtur fires and then porked and made a Surtur baby because his energy was still lingering in that universe.

More complicated than that but you get the idea

The fire of Surtur didn't even destroy furnace of Heven.

Some skyfather level being.

😂

Originally posted by operator616
Don't forget Hank, he's done pretty crazy things. Eternity compares the 3 quite nicely: https://imgur.com/tf7sk6W

* this was indeed eternity, and not loki, as ive seen it mentioned before in the forum.

Sweet. 👆

It's always good to have confirmation. It sounds interesting so ill be sure to check it out.

I was never a fan of Aaron's either. Not to mention that his recent Dr Strange run is pure trash, imo.

Originally posted by operator616
He wasn't stable at all. He was imprisoned in the raft which was specifically attributed to his instability. Electro was able to overload the raft's security systems and break out of prison. That should give you an idea that Owen was nowhere near his true power level in that era.

Because he was nowhere near his power level.

SPIN tech is a power drainer, genius.

And when we saw him in the Ultimates you believe that he was stable? I'm talking about his encounter with Galactus. If you believe that he was stable while talking as crazy as a crazy person can be, let's just agree to disagree.

He mentioned that Bob was composed of different molecules than anything in the known universe that he had encountered.

Sentry is a puppet produced by Robert Reynold's mind. If he warped the Sentry, Void, or DS Sentry away Robert Reynolds would only need to bring them back. This is what hapened when he attempted to pull him apart on the molecular level. He found out that he was dealing with someone outside of his power range. I never said that the Sentry was more powerful than Owen. But, in this case, power doesn't matter.

Am I talking alien here? Have you not seen Sentry completely destroyed only to see him show up once again? This goes beyond some wonky super healing factor... The Sentry is a concept. He always has been, therefore Owen would only be warping the concept away, not Robert Reynolds, unless of course I missed something.

Then you brought up all of the things that had affected the Sentry, while omitting Owen's downfalls. Owen has had some less that awesome showings himself back in the day when he didn't know his true potential.

DS Sentry is the Sentry at a level of complete or, near complete understanding of what he can do with his power set, which is considerable if we were to consider the idea that death held no power over the constructs of Bob's mind. I really think that you have a lot to consider before you decide to slam the door on a character that can and has defied Owen's scope of power in the physical universe.