Originally posted by Enzeru
Read the Mastermind scans. Mastermind says that the stronger the opposing mind is, the more effective his powers are. So in a way Mastermind is tailor made to affect the Sentry and Sentry did more harm to himself. Shadow King does not have the same effect on his powers.Doctor Strange has powerful PSI magic. He couldn't contain the Sentry. The combined powers of Xavier and Emma Frost couldn't contain the Sentry. What makes you think that Shadow King can, who has lost to Xavier?
I do think that Shadow King could affect the Sentry after a year long ambush and mental manipulation. But in a straight up fight? It's easier to make more compelling arguments for the Sentry.And IMO that's not an agree-disagree topic. Pizza with pineapple being disgusting is an agree-disagree topic. While it's almost a fact that Shadow King can't just take Sentry out with telepathy in a straight up fight. If the combined powers of Xavier and Emma Frost can't, then neither can his.
I read the book. I get it he is powerful. Still doesnt negate that he was controlled and the void is a direct reflection of said control. So years after Mastermind was gone Sentry was still enthralled in his illusion. Astral/battles are just as much about power as they are about finesse and skill.
Strange used magic/science to try and contain Sentry. It wasnt straight tp
ABC logic?
Originally posted by Wonder ManThe origins of Sentry were explained in the intro to Marvel like marvel always explains their character.
Check out 616 or you missed the plot.
This is also the policy marvel movies followed to get so big.
I honestly still don't know what the point is you're trying to make. I just know that it somehow sounds wrong. But I'm still not sure as to what to debunk. Anyway, you mentioned something along the lines of Sentry being a low level telepath:
Here is a scan of Emma Frost asking Professor X for help. She needs Xavier to enter the White Room she once built in Sentrys mind with Sentrys permission. So to even enter a zone in Sentrys mind she herself built, Emma Frost needs the help of another incredibly powerful telepath:
https://i.imgur.com/I9vb0HF.jpg
The idea of any telepath simply shutting the Sentry down with telepathy or beating him somehow else telepathically... is not something I'm willing to entertain all too lightly. Obviously due to the no limits fallacy I can't just say that Sentry is absolutely immune to telepathy and can't be stopped that way. But if the combined powers of Emma Frost and Professor X are not enough to simply beat the Sentry, then Shadow King won't be able to pull it off either.
Here is a scan of Emma entering the White Room and immediately getting noticed by the darkness of Sentrys mind (the Void). She is attacked and almost immediately defeated by the Void, who is oozing into the White Room:
https://i.imgur.com/9iWToAv.jpg
Here is a scan of Emma Frost in her diamond form, which shuts down her telepathy powers, but makes her invulnerable and in this case protects her from the Void. She has no idea where she is or what's going on. And if she leaves her diamond form, she dies:
https://i.imgur.com/0C5FPGV.jpg
Here is someone else entering Sentrys mind and immediately having to leave:
https://i.imgur.com/TvmFDSr.jpg
Why are we now supposed to assume that Shadow King could not only enter and stay in Sentrys mind but also beat him? Sentry has a track record of psionically overwhelming his opposition.
Originally posted by Sin I AMI read the book. I get it he is powerful. Still doesnt negate that he was controlled and the void is a direct reflection of said control. So years after Mastermind was gone Sentry was still enthralled in his illusion. Astral/battles are just as much about power as they are about finesse and skill.
Strange used magic/science to try and contain Sentry. It wasnt straight tp
ABC logic?
1. Masterminds powers don't mind control people. He manipulates them with psionic suggestions. That's not really the same thing. Shadow King doesn't have Masterminds powers.
2. Molecule manipulation battles are also about finesse and skill, but how did that turn out for the Molecule Man, when he faced the Sentry? Sentrys raw power often dramatically overshadows his inexperience in certain areas.
3. Here is Sentrys dialogue after he breaks free from Doctor Stranges magic:
You, of all people, Stephen! But Mind Cancer Magic? Black Magic?
What difference does it make if it's magic or telepathy, which is being used to attack Sentrys mind? In the end of the day both methods didn't work. And Shadow King is reduced to only one method: telepathy. Telepathy actually inferior to Xaviers telepathy and I think we've seen how Xavier did against the Sentry: He couldn't stop him and he got his memories erased by the Sentry.
So far I haven't really seen arguments for the Shadow King, really. All I read is: "Shadow King has more experience therefore he wins". Not an argument though.
4. Again, you continue to use Mastermind as an argument for Shadow King, even though these two characters have completely different power sets, which also affect other characters completely different. As I said before: Mastermind is tailor made to affect the Sentry. Sentry has obviously an incredibly powerful mind and Masterminds powers work better on people with powerful minds. That doesn't apply for Shadow King. Shadow King needs to enter the fight against the Sentry, while being a weaker telepath than Xavier - whose track record against the Sentry isn't that great.
Originally posted by Wonder ManSentry had no superpower before he put his costume on and Marvel answered it was because of his high level intellect that he became powered.
Eeeh, what? Are we talking about the same character? Could you post a picture of the Sentry you have in mind?
To clear up a couple of things:
The idea that Xavier is above Shadow King is pretty outdated. He hasn't been for a while, admitting it himself both in the past and present.
https://postimg.cc/image/egjxv6at3/
https://postimg.cc/image/f2dyobrlj/
Most recently, Shadow King was able to manifest on the physical plane, and he subjugated all the minds on Earth while fighting the X-Men, Xavier and Omega-upgraded Psylocke included.
https://postimg.cc/image/fwvgcr8ev/
https://postimg.cc/image/6cbtpvqsn/
https://postimg.cc/image/d36jo9u07/
It took Xavier and Psylocke channeling every psychic on Marvel Earth to beat him. This is utterly insane.
https://postimg.cc/image/7dc2fl08n/
https://postimg.cc/image/en2ovel4n/
https://postimg.cc/image/46hivy82v/
https://postimg.cc/image/m9aln5w7r/
https://postimg.cc/image/9551agwg7/
Right before that, he imprisoned Proteus for 10,000 years on the astral plane and Xavier for what he suspects was 1,000+.
https://postimg.cc/image/epmki2h0n/
https://postimg.cc/image/gu6xj5qd3/
https://postimg.cc/image/c2awcmf6f/
He completely dominated Psylocke while keeping them captive too. Psylocke was able to send out a hemisphere-ish wide distress beacon though, to her credit.
https://postimg.cc/image/f3nwhabaf/
https://postimg.cc/image/ahrs8ysc7/
https://postimg.cc/image/up5819xjb/
https://postimg.cc/image/8d7f7vb9z/
https://postimg.cc/image/wgy6w5m13/
We can argue Proteus amped him a bit, but I'd argue that amp allowed him to breach the barrier into the material plane while still performing all his other actions. It's not like he hasn't demonstrated this level of power before. He's already smashed Xavier while mindcontrolling Legion, who was using Cerebro at the time of possession, and SK's possession remained even while his powers were dampened. Farouk was beating Xavier so badly, Xavier's bones were grinding into pieces in the real world.
https://postimg.cc/image/v0vv5rl3r/
https://postimg.cc/image/vqeni4td3/
https://postimg.cc/image/q28cr9jvr/
https://postimg.cc/image/ru1bm5nt3/
https://postimg.cc/image/m5v0v9r6f/
https://postimg.cc/image/b69tjnlbr/
And that's not even getting into the full scope of some of his feats, like how he animates dead bodies and broadcasts global hate waves while controlling folks and battling high order telepaths simultaneously. Combined with the fact that Shadow King feeds off darkness, he should wreck Sentry tbh. The Void would provide Farouk with a steady stream of fuel to do pretty much whatever he wants.
Additionally, Sentry's feat is being overblown. Yes, it's neat, but it's hardly a gamechanger. No one was resisting him, and psychics sneak little tricks/traps on each other all the time. Rachel and Emma have done it to Xavier, yet he's beaten both in fights. Xavier has also, on multiple occasions, done more impressive things like weaponize the psyches of entire planets.
Originally posted by Enzeru
Here is a scan of Emma Frost asking Professor X for help. She needs Xavier to enter the White Room she once built in Sentrys mind with Sentrys permission. So to even enter a zone in Sentrys mind she herself built, Emma Frost needs the help of another incredibly powerful telepath:
https://i.imgur.com/I9vb0HF.jpg
