Most Powerful "Neutral" Force Wielders?
So grey jedi, light-sith, whatever the hell you wanna call them. Those who regularly incorporated both sides of the force and/or both the jedi & sith teachings.
Entities count too, so I'd assume The Father of Mortis is ranked number one, but neither of his children count.
Originally posted by Freedon NaddOkay so, this is false.
Jesus Christ. The Gray Jedi stuff again. There is no balance. Jedi or Sith either remain with one side or keep shifting from an extreme to another. There is no Balance, except in the Light Side.
There are Jedi who kill for the greater good, thats not the "light side".
Originally posted by Jmanghan
Okay so, this is false.There are Jedi who kill for the greater good, thats not the "light side".
Obviously because they are shifting from an extreme to another. And there are those Jedi or Sith who remain on one side.
But only in the Light Side there can be Balance because it's the only side that keeps in check your animalic desires.
A big misconception, I think, is people believing that using the dark or light side of the force is entirely dependant on your philosophy/emotions. This isn't necesarily true. You can use the light side with anger (Vaapad) or incorporate dark side abilities through light-side emotions (Jaden Korr and Kyle Katarn are big examples).
And we know the force doesn't just have its light and dark side. There's the Aing Ti, the Nightsisters, the Ewok Shamans, the many witches, and varying interpretations away from the darkside/lightside theory which exist.
So there being a "grey" side of things where a force user doesn't completely devote him/her self to either the dark or light can defenitely exist, and it can come with either a different philosophy (the Jensaarai, the Je'Daii), the jedi/sith philosophy (Gravid, Vectivus, Lumiya on the sith side, Windu, Katarn, Korr on the jedi), or you can just shun both sides, ie Revan.
And yeah, I agree Jmanghan, I just threw Tyris in there because he was a named grey force user, and I didn't feel like scrolling through Wookiepedia to remember some other, probably more valid characters.
Originally posted by Zentrex
A big misconception, I think, is people believing that using the dark or light side of the force is entirely dependant on your philosophy/emotions. This isn't necesarily true. You can use the light side with anger (Vaapad) or incorporate dark side abilities through light-side emotions (Jaden Korr and Kyle Katarn are big examples).
1. It does. Emotions give way to your alignment. Hence the Jedi and Sith Code.
2. Except that Vaapad is still a form of darkness.
"I created Vaapad to answer my weakness: it channels my own darkness into a weapon of the light."
―Mace Windu to Obi-Wan Kenobi
Basically, Windu says that he is using his own negative emotions for the greater good. Nonetheless, he is still using the Dark Side.
3. Mace Windu, Jaden Korr, and Kyle Katarn - are three best examples of those Jedi who shift from an extreme to another. Even then it is clearly that the Light Side is the one dominant in these three.
In fact Nomi Sunrider makes a good point about this stuff:
"He who learns the dark way will become infected with darkness. His judgment will become clouded and he will forget the good things he learned. If a Jedi PERSISTS in this attempt to BRIDGE THE TWO ways, he will be torn apart in his very being."
―Sunrider, speaking to Ulic Qel-Droma
Basically seeking balance within chaos. Which is stupid because there can be no order or balance in chaos.
And we know the force doesn't just have its light and dark side. There's the Aing Ti, the Nightsisters, the Ewok Shamans, the many witches, and varying interpretations away from the darkside/lightside theory which exist.
The Force=God=super abilities
The Light Side=self-control, harmony, order, balance, serenity, compassion
The Dark Side=lust, desire, destruction, hunger, chaos, imbalance, fear, anger, wrath,
So there being a "grey" side of things where a force user doesn't completely devote him/her self to either the dark or light can defenitely exist, and it can come with either a different philosophy (the Jensaarai, the Je'Daii), the jedi/sith philosophy (Gravid, Vectivus, Lumiya on the sith side, Windu, Katarn, Korr on the jedi), or you can just shun both sides, ie Revan.
Except for the fact that doesn't mean it is a neutral Force-user or a Grey user or a Balanced user. Those people you presented in your argument are those who constantly shift from a side of the Force to another. Neither of them tried to combine them or remain in the middle. Well, Gravid tried. And he went mad.
Originally posted by Freedon Nadd
1. It does. Emotions give way to your alignment. Hence the Jedi and Sith Code.
The Force=God=super abilities
The Light Side=self-control, harmony, order, balance, serenity, compassion
The Dark Side=lust, desire, destruction, hunger, chaos, imbalance, fear, anger, wrath
Emotions give way to your alignment, but not necessarily the application of powers.
Your view of the force is based on the idea that certain emotions are a pathway to certain powers/applications. This is what the movies present to us.
I don't share this view, however.
In my thinking, if you go with the natural flow of the force (let's say "serve the light"😉, you create and exude harmony, serenity, love, all that good stuff. If you go against it ("serve the dark"😉, you create and exude chaos, anger, hatred, pain, etc.
The inverse is, if you feel order, harmony, serenity, and love, you can get access to lightside powers. If you feel chaos, anger, hatred, and pain, then you get access to darkside powers.
Some users serve the light by feeling the dark, and vice versa. Think of it like lightsaber forms. A lightsider can use an aggressive rythm of movement while still serving the light. A jedi can disrupt the flow of the force on a smaller scale to exacerbate it on a bigger scale.
An even stranger concept is the ability to manipulate the world as the dark side does, while still feeling the light side, which is what we call Vaapad. It proves that emotions and connection to a certain side of the force is not a 1:1 type deal, all the time.
2. Except that Vaapad is still a form of darkness.Basically, Windu says that he is using his own negative emotions for the greater good. Nonetheless, he is still using the Dark Side.
My proof for the above is Vaapad (that and the many other non-jedi/sith religions I mentioned). Windu may be wielding negative emotions when using it, but it's also been stated that one must stay calm and collected on the inside, while seeming like a bomb about to go off on the outside. He's not "using the dark side for the greater good", he's serving the light by manipulating the world through the dark. Like starting to run from farther back, so that you can jump farther ahead.
What's more is, Vaapad has been stated to "let the dark side pass through a user without touching him/her", and "rolling off the user." Windu said it's "a path that leads through the penumbra of the dark side." Count Dooku called it "skirting the dark side." So you're not actually using the dark side. You're calling on it, but you're not embracing it. You can feel all these emotions that Windu feels when he uses Vaapad, yet still not technically be applying the dark side, as much as aiming and redirecting it.
This proves that serving the dark or light and manipulating your surroundings are different.
3. Mace Windu, Jaden Korr, and Kyle Katarn - are three best examples of those Jedi who shift from an extreme to another. Even then it is clearly that the Light Side is the one dominant in these three.
While most users stick to manipulating their surroundings through the side they serve, these guys are the exceptions (along with Starkiller, Vectivus, and probably a few others). They do switch between the two extremes, but with their application, not their alignment. They serve the light, yet manipulate the force with the dark and light in equal increments.
In fact Nomi Sunrider makes a good point about this stuff:Basically seeking balance within chaos. Which is stupid because there can be no order or balance in chaos.
Neither of them tried to combine them or remain in the middle. Well, Gravid tried. And he went mad
The problem arrives when someone tries to serve both the light and the dark. You can't. But you can serve niether, as The Je'Daii and the Jensaarai did. This is what I would consider a true "neutral" force user.
It's true Revan did switch between serving the dark and the light, and Windu really only served the light, but they're the only well known characters who are closest ot being "neutral."
TL;DR application and alignment are different. There's two types of gray jedi: ones who have one alignment but switch between applications, and those who don't have an alignment. There are those who try to have both alignments, but that's impossible, so they fail.