Most Powerful "Neutral" Force Wielders?

what about the celestials? Are they force users?

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
what about the celestials? Are they force users?

Originally posted by Zentrex

Emotions give way to your alignment, but not necessarily the application of powers.

Your view of the force is based on the idea that certain emotions are a pathway to certain powers/applications. This is what the movies present to us.
I don't share this view, however.

In my thinking, if you go with the natural flow of the force (let's say "serve the light"😉, you create and exude harmony, serenity, love, all that good stuff. If you go against it ("serve the dark"😉, you create and exude chaos, anger, hatred, pain, etc.
The inverse is, if you feel order, harmony, serenity, and love, you can get access to lightside powers. If you feel chaos, anger, hatred, and pain, then you get access to darkside powers.
Some users serve the light by feeling the dark, and vice versa. Think of it like lightsaber forms. A lightsider can use an aggressive rythm of movement while still serving the light. A jedi can disrupt the flow of the force on a smaller scale to exacerbate it on a bigger scale.

An even stranger concept is the ability to manipulate the world as the dark side does, while still feeling the light side, which is what we call Vaapad. It proves that emotions and connection to a certain side of the force is not a 1:1 type deal, all the time.

My proof for the above is Vaapad (that and the many other non-jedi/sith religions I mentioned). Windu may be wielding negative emotions when using it, but it's also been stated that one must stay calm and collected on the inside, while seeming like a bomb about to go off on the outside. He's not "using the dark side for the greater good", he's serving the light by manipulating the world through the dark. Like starting to run from farther back, so that you can jump farther ahead.

What's more is, Vaapad has been stated to "let the dark side pass through a user without touching him/her", and "rolling off the user." Windu said it's "a path that leads through the penumbra of the dark side." Count Dooku called it "skirting the dark side." So you're not actually using the dark side. You're calling on it, but you're not embracing it. You can feel all these emotions that Windu feels when he uses Vaapad, yet still not technically be applying the dark side, as much as aiming and redirecting it.

This proves that serving the dark or light and manipulating your surroundings are different.

While most users stick to manipulating their surroundings through the side they serve, these guys are the exceptions (along with Starkiller, Vectivus, and probably a few others). They do switch between the two extremes, but with their application, not their alignment. They serve the light, yet manipulate the force with the dark and light in equal increments.

The problem arrives when someone tries to serve both the light and the dark. You can't. But you can serve niether, as The Je'Daii and the Jensaarai did. This is what I would consider a true "neutral" force user.
It's true Revan did switch between serving the dark and the light, and Windu really only served the light, but they're the only well known characters who are closest ot being "neutral."

TL;DR application and alignment are different. There's two types of gray jedi: ones who have one alignment but switch between applications, and those who don't have an alignment. There are those who try to have both alignments, but that's impossible, so they fail.

Dude, you aren't debunking my arguments. You say other things.
Neutral=neither that nor this
Neither light nor dark.
Gray=white+black

Force users who use use one side or shift from one another cannot be called neutral or grey. Grey Force Jedi is a stupid concept.
Vectivus was a Dark Lord of the Sith and had their traits. He just kept most of his desires in check because he saw no meaning in it because it was not profitable to him. Vectivus is just like Nadd who (only) conquered Onderon and had no desire to conquer other planets.

switching between sides means you're not sticking or ascribing to one side. Thus, you are grey. You are not "sometimes white and sometimes black" because you don't hold those values at any time. You switch between application to serve a different set of your personalized values.

That's not what it means.

Staying white, sometimes black doesn't mean - grey.

Grey - is to be able to be both at the same time. Grey cannot be sometimes white and sometimes black.

Sure, you can believe that. But it's a nonsensical belief.

Alright, so...I'm sort of glad you commented back because I was thinking about this earlier today, and for some reason this is the only analogy which came to mind. If you can get any enjoyment out of the following, I beseech you to do so.

It's like having a threesome. Technically, you cannot have sex with two people at the same time. You have to switch between having sex with one person and then the other, on a macro scale. On a larger scale however, you spent the night having sex with both people, thus as a sum, you had a threesome.

This is basically what's happening here. You're *on a macro scale* switching between the dark and the light. But since you don't dedicate yourself to either, and you don't plan on staying faithful to one side, you're *large scale* entwined with both sides.

...you know, your post wouldn't even have been that weird if you hadn't prefaced it with your hopes of Nadd "enjoying it."

Originally posted by NewGuy01
...you know, your post wouldn't even have been that weird if you hadn't prefaced it with your hopes of Nadd "enjoying it."

Fun fact, I retroactively went back and put that in after I was done writing the full comment just seconds before submitting. I then proceeded to slap myself upside the head for not thinking about what I'm putting out there, but then not editing it away because it's kind of funny.

I wrote that (and am writing this) at midnight, so my head's not functioning properly. Well it is, actually, but I'm just going to use that excuse to free myself of any judgement whenever I write anything weird. I like writing weird things.

Originally posted by Zentrex
Alright, so...I'm sort of glad you commented back because I was thinking about this earlier today, and for some reason this is the only analogy which came to mind. If you can get any enjoyment out of the following, I beseech you to do so.

It's like having a threesome. Technically, you cannot have sex with two people at the same time. You have to switch between having sex with one person and then the other, on a macro scale. On a larger scale however, you spent the night having sex with both people, thus as a sum, you had a threesome.

This is basically what's happening here. You're *on a macro scale* switching between the dark and the light. But since you don't dedicate yourself to either, and you don't plan on staying faithful to one side, you're *large scale* entwined with both sides.

You cannot compare people with concepts. I mean it's laughably simple: Gray is a color formed out of black and white. Gray isn't sometimes black or white, it is both.