Mutants vs. Super Soldiers

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller

During the Vanessa-death scene, Wade was actually able to turn around and take a step or two in her direction in the time it took the bullet to cross the room IIRC. Now, he is obviously not Flash fast, but it does show an incredible amount of speed (both in perception/reaction and movement), considering a normal human would be hard pressed to simply turn their head in that same amount of time.

Yeah but kind of ruined when right after he chases her killer at a very human running speed.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Yeah but kind of ruined when right after he chases her killer at a very human running speed.

It's like people just aren't listening to what Nemebro and I are actually saying. The argument is superspeed/reflexes with smaller movements related to combat. No one says he can run around like Quicksilver. Nor has anyone said he is a full-on speedster like him either. Both of us have explicitly stated the opposite. But it does not detract from the fact that he has shown blatant/explicit enhanced/bullet-time speed/reaction for smaller/shorter actions.

Seriously, if all people are going to do is basically throw strawmen at me, then I am done here.

^ Are you frigging kidding me?

You dont need to be QS speed just to chase/catch a normal human bad guy.

All I said was that kinda ruined/negated the moving around at bullet speed feat immediately prior. And it did. Someone who can move his hand and turn his head that fast should have Zero issues chasing a regular bad guy.

But then its Deadpool. Its not supposed to be taken completely seriously in terms of feats. Except of course by you and Nemebro apparently.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
It's like people just aren't listening to what Nemebro and I are actually saying. The argument is superspeed/reflexes with smaller movements related to combat. No one says he can [B]run around like Quicksilver. Nor has anyone said he is a full-on speedster like him either. Both of us have explicitly stated the opposite. But it does not detract from the fact that he has shown blatant/explicit enhanced/bullet-time speed/reaction for smaller/shorter actions.

Seriously, if all people are going to do is basically throw strawmen at me, then I am done here. [/B]

I understand what you're saying but I don't think you understand what I'm saying. Moving your arm holding a 2 foot sword to cut at a bullet that's about 2-3 feet in front of you is NOT a small movement. Not to mention the fact that DP would have needed to perceive time in slow motion in order to have the accuracy needed to cut that bullet... unless you think it was simply a lucky shot. Bottom line, you need legit superhuman speed to pull that off.

Right now you want to have your cake and eat it too. You want to claim that the feat is legitimately showcasing DP's speed yet don't want to admit that it would put him in full superspeedster category. And we're not at the point where, if he was indeed this fast, then all the times he was getting hit by bullets doesn't make sense at all.

Deadpool during the second part of that scene had just jumped clean through a window to the ground, and then proceeded to get hit by a car before he could catch the guy. It is entirely conceivable that he hurt his legs and was in the process of healing during the chase (which lasted like three seconds and he was visibly gaining on him because, once again, hit by a car). Notably, he then proceeded to run with such speed and force that when he shoulder bumped the car it skidded sideways and the door on the opposite side of him was forced open.

It's actually incredible that people are trying so hard to argue against Deadpool's blatantly superhuman reflexes and speed.

YouTube video

2:14 he shows the speed to casually reach from the top of a car that is currently rolling at like eighty miles and hour and grab a guy without his arm being crushed by the car or the ground. Not as good as either bullet feat, but notable due to how casual and effortless it is.

And it's not like bullet-timing is exclusive to the second film either.

YouTube video

0:35, at the start of the counting bullets scene, Deadpool leaps into the air and fires a bullet, before doing a little spin mid-air and firing another bullet. What makes this feat so phucking crazy is that, as we see directly after, the two bullets land simultaneously, with one of the bad guys being maybe a meter behind the other, meaning that he did that little twist and fired once more in about the time it took that bullet to fire move approximately a meter.

About a minute in we see him fire two shots at Francis, who almost lazily bobs his head to the side and dodges them. The same Francis who Deadpool fights hand-to-hand. Deadpool then later avoids a burst of machine-gun fire from him, and whether he was dodging the bullets themselves or just dodging the aim, he is dodging the aim of someone who explicitly has superhuman reflexes as a power and who has shown he can easily move quickly enough to avoid bullets after being fired.

At 2:32 before three thugs can do more than move their guns a few inches Deadpool is spinning in mid-air and putting a bullet through all three of their heads.

It's so weird. Deadpool demonstrates blatantly superhuman physical abilities throughout both films, but here Froth and Darth Thor are trying so hard to discredit his blatantly superhuman speed.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Deadpool during the second part of that scene had just jumped clean through a window to the ground, and then proceeded to get hit by a car before he could catch the guy. It is entirely conceivable that he hurt his legs and was in the process of healing during the chase (which lasted like three seconds and he was visibly gaining on him because, once again, hit by a car). Notably, he then proceeded to run with such speed and force that when he shoulder bumped the car it skidded sideways and the door on the opposite side of him was forced open.

It's actually incredible that people are trying so hard to argue against Deadpool's blatantly superhuman reflexes and speed.

YouTube video

2:14 he shows the speed to casually reach from the top of a car that is currently rolling at like eighty miles and hour and grab a guy without his arm being crushed by the car or the ground. Not as good as either bullet feat, but notable due to how casual and effortless it is.

And it's not like bullet-timing is exclusive to the second film either.

YouTube video

0:35, at the start of the counting bullets scene, Deadpool leaps into the air and fires a bullet, before doing a little spin mid-air and firing another bullet. What makes this feat so phucking crazy is that, as we see directly after, the two bullets land simultaneously, with one of the bad guys being maybe a meter behind the other, meaning that he did that little twist and fired once more in about the time it took that bullet to fire move approximately a meter.

About a minute in we see him fire two shots at Francis, who almost lazily bobs his head to the side and dodges them. The same Francis who Deadpool fights hand-to-hand. Deadpool then later avoids a burst of machine-gun fire from him, and whether he was dodging the bullets themselves or just dodging the aim, he is dodging the aim of someone who explicitly has superhuman reflexes as a power and who has shown he can easily move quickly enough to avoid bullets after being fired.

At 2:32 before three thugs can do more than move their guns a few inches Deadpool is spinning in mid-air and putting a bullet through all three of their heads.

It's so weird. Deadpool demonstrates blatantly superhuman physical abilities throughout both films, but here Froth and Darth Thor are trying so hard to discredit his blatantly superhuman speed.

At this point I'm not even trying to argue against it, I'm just trying to get you and Vault to admit that you're basically claiming DP has legit superspeed.

Originally posted by FrothByte
At this point I'm not even trying to argue against it, I'm just trying to get you and Vault to admit that you're basically claiming DP has legit superspeed.

Originally posted by NemeBro
I can't speak for Vault, but I have literally zero problem with saying as much. Deadpool has super speed, both on foot or in terms of attack speed and reflexes. He's not nearly as fast as someone like Quicksilver (even MCU), Superman, Flash, or whatever, but sure, he has super speed. 👆

This.

And I am sorry, but if people want to claim he doesn't, then go ahead and disprove Kyle Hill from Because Science's calculations (as well as the ones from the Versus wiki) on the topic. It's that simple.

He probably did crack his legs, Neme. Remember later during the "superhero landing" scene. We hear his knees break when he lands and hes limping for a bit before he is back to normal. Amd he goes "Nnnnng, sooo impractical."

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
This.

And I am sorry, but if people want to claim he doesn't, then go ahead and disprove Kyle Hill from Because Science's calculations (as well as the ones from the Versus wiki) on the topic. It's that simple.

Ok, at least we're now clear that you do consider DP a speedster. You do realize you're using the exact same argument h1 uses to claim Ozy is a speedster too right?

Are there truly people who don't believe Ozymandias has superhuman speed? h1 certainly exaggerates how fast he is (he isn't that far beyond Cap, if at all), but what is the justification for pretending Ozymandias didn't demonstrate speeds beyond human ability?

Originally posted by FrothByte
Ok, at least we're now clear that you do consider DP a speedster. You do realize you're using the exact same argument h1 uses to claim Ozy is a speedster too right?

Are you seriously trying to suggest that posting video clips with accompanying calcs (which are in line with the views from credited people, like Kyle Hill) is comparable with what H1 does? Wow, dude. Just wow. You're comparing me with phucking H1 because you don't agree with what I have to say? Seriously, don't expect another response from me in this thread.

Originally posted by NemeBro

It's so weird. Deadpool demonstrates blatantly superhuman physical abilities throughout both films, but here Froth and Darth Thor are trying so hard to discredit his blatantly superhuman speed.

Yeah because 2 posts pointing out an inconsistency which you would rather just ignore is me trying Really Hard to discredit any kind of superhuman speed.

You are a moron.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Are you seriously trying to suggest that posting video clips with accompanying calcs (which are in line with the views from credited people, like Kyle Hill) is comparable with what H1 does? Wow, dude. Just wow. You're comparing me with phucking H1 because you don't agree with what I have to say? Seriously, don't expect another response from me in this thread.

H1 claimed that Ozy catching a bullet made him a speedster, even if that was inconsistent with the rest of his feats for the entire movie.

You're claiming that DP cutting a bullet makes him a speedster, even if that makes him completely inconsistent with the rest of his feats in the movie.

You're a better debater than H1, nicer too, so your'e able to express your point better. But you're still using pretty much the same basic argument: which is that 1 or 2 feats trump the other feats they showed for the entire movie even if it's completely inconsistent.

I don't have a problem with Kyle Hill's computations, I don't disagree with them. My argument with you is not that DP didn't display superspeed in that scene, it's that I feel it's silly that you use 1-2 scenes as basis for his speed when they were scenes obviously exaggerated for cool-factor and does not match what we see from DP for the rest of the movie. This is a DP movie after all, they exaggerate a lot.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Are there truly people who don't believe Ozymandias has superhuman speed? h1 certainly exaggerates how fast he is (he isn't that far beyond Cap, if at all), but what is the justification for pretending Ozymandias didn't demonstrate speeds beyond human ability?

Ozy being not much faster than Cap is no issue for me. Same thing as DP being not that much faster than Cap is no issue for me.

However, it seemed that you and Vault were implying he was much faster, and to use the bullet-cut scene as a basis for his speed would have made him a speedster at least faster than Wonder Woman... which would make him a lot faster than Cap. That's what I have issues with because it's completely out of character for DP to be attributed that kind of speed.

Regarding the Kyle Hill video: he discusses the superhuman reflexes necessary to react to a bullet, not necessarily the superhuman speed necessary to move your body fast enough to make the cut or track the bullet in mid flight.

Also Vault Im pretty sure you have argued against applying super speed to Wonder Woman in the past due to inconsistencies.

Originally posted by FrothByte
H1 claimed that Ozy catching a bullet made him a speedster, even if that was inconsistent with the rest of his feats for the entire movie.

You're claiming that DP cutting a bullet makes him a speedster, even if that makes him completely inconsistent with the rest of his feats in the movie.

You're a better debater than H1, nicer too, so your'e able to express your point better. But you're still using pretty much the same basic argument: which is that 1 or 2 feats trump the other feats they showed for the entire movie even if it's completely inconsistent.

I don't have a problem with Kyle Hill's computations, I don't disagree with them. My argument with you is not that DP didn't display superspeed in that scene, it's that I feel it's silly that you use 1-2 scenes as basis for his speed when they were scenes obviously exaggerated for cool-factor and does not match what we see from DP for the rest of the movie. This is a DP movie after all, they exaggerate a lot.

No. I am arguing Deadpool has super speed because he has performed feats that would require super speed to accomplish. Cap, WS etc. all consistently visually move no faster than fast humans during many of their action scenes and such. How do we know they are enhanced then? We use other quantifiable feats that show us, "okay, clearly they have to be faster than they look a lot of the time". And this doesn't just apply to these films or characters.

Also, you know that reactions aren't enough if you can't move your limbs fast enough to take successful action. Otherwise, all you will do is watch yourself being shot in slowmo. So, Kyle's video still supports my stance.

Anyway, we have been at this for a few pages. I am not going to budge. Doesn't look like you are. So, I am going to go do something more productive than spin wheels in circles.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Also Vault Im pretty sure you have argued against applying super speed to Wonder Woman in the past due to inconsistencies.

Actually, I can post multiple examples where I argue in favour of her speed in a fight. A recent example was the Wonder Woman vs Juggernaut thread (I even pointed out that I struggle seeing him even tagging her). I've also brought it up in threads like Wonder Woman vs Superman and such, specifically referencing things like the alley bullet-deflection scene. Frothbyte is the one who routinely does what you are saying with Diana, bringing up things like Ludendorf tagging her.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
No. I am arguing Deadpool has super speed because he has performed feats that would require super speed to accomplish. Cap, WS etc. all consistently visually move no faster than fast humans during many of their action scenes and such. How do we know they are enhanced then? We use other quantifiable feats that show us, "okay, clearly they have to be faster than they look a lot of the time". And this doesn't just apply to these films or characters.

Also, you know that reactions aren't enough if you can't move your limbs fast enough to take successful action. Otherwise, all you will do is watch yourself being shot in slowmo. So, Kyle's video still supports my stance.

Anyway, we have been at this for a few pages. I am not going to budge. Doesn't look like you are. So, I am going to go do something more productive than spin wheels in circles.

Actually, I can post multiple examples where I argue in favour of her speed in a fight. A recent example was the Wonder Woman vs Juggernaut thread (I even pointed out that I struggle seeing him even tagging her). I've also brought it up in threads like Wonder Woman vs Superman and such, specifically referencing things like the alley bullet-deflection scene. Frothbyte is the one who routinely does what you are saying with Diana, bringing up things like Ludendorf tagging her.

Yes, you are arguing that DP has superspeed because of one scene where he displayed superspeed (you haven't posted the Vanessa clip yet) which is exactly the same thing h1 did, by arguing Ozy has superspeed based on one scene where he displayed superspeed. You then ignore pretty much 99% of their other feats where they never showed that same kind of speed.

Is DP fast? Yes he is, above and beyond what any human can achieve. Is he faster than the super soldiers? This is where we start disagreeing. If your stance is that he simply has heightened reflexes and speed to allow him some basic bullet dodging/blocking skills then he's really not that much faster than Winter Soldier who can backflip out of the way of machinegun fire from point blank range.

But if you're claiming that he's a legit bullet-timer, capable of tracking a bullet's trajectory in slow motion and capable of moving faster than the bullet in order to cut it in half despite only moving at the last moment, then you're going to run into a consistency problem as he never displays that kind of superspeed in majority of his fight scenes even when it could have been extremely useful.

And unless I'm misremembering, these were some of the same arguments you used against h1 and his claim that Ozy was a lot faster than Winter Soldier.

Edit: And yes: Luddendorf, Ares and Steppenwolf tagging WW is a consistency problem, since none of these characters have displayed any feat to match WW's supposed super speed.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Yes, you are arguing that DP has superspeed because of one scene where he displayed superspeed (you haven't posted the Vanessa clip yet) which is exactly the same thing h1 did, by arguing Ozy has superspeed based on one scene where he displayed superspeed. You then ignore pretty much 99% of their other feats where they never showed that same kind of speed.

Is DP fast? Yes he is, above and beyond what any human can achieve. Is he faster than the super soldiers? This is where we start disagreeing. If your stance is that he simply has heightened reflexes and speed to allow him some basic bullet dodging/blocking skills then he's really not that much faster than Winter Soldier who can backflip out of the way of machinegun fire from point blank range.

But if you're claiming that he's a legit bullet-timer, capable of tracking a bullet's trajectory in slow motion and capable of moving faster than the bullet in order to cut it in half despite only moving at the last moment, then you're going to run into a consistency problem as he never displays that kind of superspeed in majority of his fight scenes even when it could have been extremely useful.

And unless I'm misremembering, these were some of the same arguments you used against h1 and his claim that Ozy was a lot faster than Winter Soldier.

Edit: And yes: Luddendorf, Ares and Steppenwolf tagging WW is a consistency problem, since none of these characters have displayed any feat to match WW's supposed super speed.

Nemebro already posted the Vanessa clip, but here it is again. You can very clearly see his head turn, follow the bullet, and then still make an effort to go after it (obviously, he was too slow), but it gets the point across.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34LHRsiaCD8

Actually, my argument regarding Ozy is that being able to catch one bullet and then getting floored in the process doesn't mean that you can continually avoid punches and kicks from someone who also has enhanced speed.

And anyway, Wade and Ozy's feats are not the same. Casually cutting a bullet in half with a precision strike > falling over while catching one. So, comparing feats, Wade would be faster than Ozy as well.

But yeah, I am done here. Accept the clip I just posted. Or don't. Not bothered either way.