Doomsday visits Marvel

Started by DarkSaint858 pages

Like I said, comics.

How does Hulk's pants stay where they are? The gluteus Maximus is the largest muscle in the body, so logically, any growth would hit that area like a ton of bricks etc etc.

And sure, we can assume he later grows organs (even though it was never shown). I can just as well assume he develops telepathy and reality warping, even though it was never shown.

Not being snippy, likeParm, am merely pointing out what was shown.

This bio also says he has no organs:

And in H/P, he had no organs either.

Let's be honest here, if I thought he had organs, Susan Storm would've been first on the scene lol.

Originally posted by carver9
What did Superman and Doomsday destroy in their fight? Ironman and Hulk fight split New York clean in half. Hulk and Black bolt fight knocked a chunk out of the moon the size of a state and WWH and Skaar fight shook the planet.

You want to play this useless game?

It was retcon that Kal and DD shook the planet in their fight!

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Like I said, comics.

How does Hulk's pants stay where they are? The gluteus Maximus is the largest muscle in the body, so logically, any growth would hit that area like a ton of bricks etc etc.

And sure, we can assume he later grows organs (even though it was never shown). I can just as well assume he develops telepathy and reality warping, even though it was never shown.

Not being snippy, likeParm, am merely pointing out what was shown.

This bio also says he has no organs:

And in H/P, he had no organs either.

Let's be honest here, if I thought he had organs, Susan Storm would've been first on the scene lol.

Doomsday's clones were the same, at least in the animated film:

7sSBArpqAQI?t=1m48s

01:48

Perhaps you can provide the scans? Or Diana never says it in the comic?

So yeah, it's a standard part of DD's powerset. As dumb as it may seem to be.

She said the same thing:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11114/111147274/3711331-5176766619-87cb9.jpg

Thanks 👆

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Thanks 👆

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Originally posted by SquallX
DOS and H/P are two different beast.

H/P was adapting on the fly, DOS never did that. And if he did, it wasn't as fast as H/P.

Tbf, there was absolutely nothing that DoS Doomsday *needed* to adapt against, until Superman started going all-out.

Prior to that, he was already capable of outright tanking absolutely everything thrown at him:

*No reason to evolve when you're already a LOT stronger than everyone you're fighting.

However, his strength DID perpetually evolve/increase as he fought an all-out/bloodlusted Superman:

As did his speed:

DD's gimmick has ALWAYS been adapting/evolving on an as-needed basis -- that's how Bertron engineered him. This trait didn't just spontaneously 'activate' during the H/P arc. Mind you, I'm not saying DD's ability to adapt on the fly wasn't *better* during the H/P arc -- just saying that perpetual evolution has been part of his powerset for the last 250,000+ years. /shrug

Would they be including "brain" as an internal organ here? Because without doing any research I'm pretty sure DD has been portrayed with a brain a couple times. Hell the whole Brainiac mind control arc.

Not saying it would help Wolverine cut his face off, but him not having a brain would be one of the dumber things I can think of in comics.

DD definitely has some sort of brain. Manchester Black managed to plant a vision in his mind during OWAW, for example:
https://i.imgur.com/yNVSz52.jpg

*And that was technically H/P Doomsday.

Originally posted by Stoic
Does he have one of those, or are you talking about the UN?
Sorry, just saw this.

Yes, Reed actually keeps a "universal entropy gun" in his closet. It is capable of one-shot-slagging Celestials, lol:

Physically, this would be extremely difficult. But, as others have pointed, there's plenty of hax that could probably take out DD at least once, even if he adapts later. This is essentially a first strike scenario for the Marvel side, so they don't necessarily need to be able to take a hit.

In addition to some others, like Spot or Reed, I'll throw Tempus, Pixie, Wiccan, and Loa into the mix. I can't remember if DD had any real TP defense at that time either, otherwise you can pick a strong telepath at random.

Originally posted by Galan007
Tbf, there was absolutely nothing that DoS Doomsday *needed* to adapt against, until Superman started going all-out.

Prior to that, he was already capable of outright tanking absolutely everything thrown at him:

*No reason to evolve when you're already a LOT stronger than everyone you're fighting.

However, his strength DID perpetually evolve/increase as he fought an all-out/bloodlusted Superman:

As did his speed:

DD's gimmick has ALWAYS been adapting/evolving on an as-needed basis -- that's how Bertron engineered him. This trait didn't just spontaneously 'activate' during the H/P arc. Mind you, I'm not saying DD's ability to adapt on the fly wasn't *better* during the H/P arc -- just saying that perpetual evolution has been part of his powerset for the last 250,000+ years. /shrug


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By the point DD fought Superman, he had already been through multiple fights with Myhem, a Green Lantern and experienced a Guardian's power and Radiant. His 'base' was already at a level where he was able to take all of those, so no wonder he casually took everything that was thrown at him without needing to change.

He didn't need to adapt to anything, as nothing was bothering him - even Superman was remarking that he wasn't able to hurt him until the end, when he went balls to the wall.

Would you say that Superman only won because he shocked Doomsday by ramping up his attacks so much in such a small timeframe?

Originally posted by One Big Mob
Would you say that Superman only won because he shocked Doomsday by ramping up his attacks so much in such a small timeframe?
I'm not sure but if I'd have to wager a guess, I'd say that Superman skyrocketed so ridiculously in power [which even turned into the basis for OWAW], that Doomsday couldn't adapt that hard, in that short of time, without dying [and then coming back as H/P]. Which considering he was able to adapt to a Guardian mid-fight [he did have a GL ring, so there,s that, but still]... If we were to isolate the end of the fight [i.e. the all out part], with the rest of the event [i.e. DD vs JL/the rest/'fighting hard but not to kill' Superman], DD looks, imo, at least 1-2 tiers above Superman. As in, Iron Man fighting Thor/Hulk level.

Can DD be lulled into a false sense of security and become complacent, or rather his powers of adapting? Or is it just going all the time as needed, and like you said, he hit his limit? I'm going with the latter myself but I just thought of that first part so thought I'd toss it out there.

Also, where would you place all out DoS Supes against OWAW Supes and Rebirth Supes? I personally am blown away by Rebirth DD, but it'd be interesting to see how you'd contrast the Supermen and by proxy the DDs (obviously we know HP/OWAW was more powerful, it's just how did Superman differ and could OWAW fought Rebirth Supes as well as he did) .

Originally posted by One Big Mob
Can DD be lulled into a false sense of security and become complacent, or rather his powers of adapting? Or is it just going all the time as needed, and like you said, he hit his limit?

Also, where would place all out DoS Supes against OWAW Supes and Rebirth Supes? I personally am blown away by Rebirth DD, but it'd be interesting to see how you'd contrast the Supermen and by proxy the DDs.

I think his adaptation is instinctual. I don't think flashing him would work.

I see Supes as having the 'OWAW' state [i.e. all-out] that pops very rarely, and the 'normal state'. His 'normal' state in the Byrne-era < his normal state in the Jeph Loeb era < his normal state 'post Infinite Crisis' < his normal state Rebirth. So I think all the 'owaw' states are superior like that. If I'd have to wager, I'd say balls-to-the-wall OWAW Supes would beat Rebirth Superman, as long as the latter doesn't go balls-to-the-wall, too. Maybe. I dunno...haven't really thought about it in depth.

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One more.

Where would you place Superman's power during the Rebirth DD fight? He was trying to end him but he knew he couldn't stand and brawl with him. Does him fighting smart hinder his strength from the "all out OWAW" state?

Originally posted by One Big Mob
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One more.

Where would you place Superman's power during the Rebirth DD fight? He was trying to end him but he knew he couldn't stand and brawl with him. Does him fighting smart hinder his strength from the "all out OWAW" state?

These are the rambling of a fanboy, but since you asked...

I think going all-out is him letting go of all restrictions, becoming ruthless and 'numbing' himself to the state of violence'/not thinking about anything else as put here:
http://photobucket.com/gallery/user/PhilosophiaKMC/media/cGF0aDovc3VwZXJtYW5jdXRzbG9vc2U0LmpwZw==/?ref=&hotlinkfix=1531761401854
..he is in a trance, basically.
It helps that he was in space, so he didn't have to worry about people around him, like Jon, Lois etc.
I don't think he loses any of his fighting skill - hell, I think he gets even better. Drilling at superspeed, focusing his heat vision in one point etc. He is in 'warrior' mode.

I mean, if we didn't see that, we'd think that this was his all-out state, where he barely beat a probe while seemingly bloodlusted:
http://photobucket.com/gallery/user/PhilosophiaKMC/media/cGF0aDovc3BlZWRibGl0emRlc3Ryb3lzcHJvYmUxLmpwZw==/?ref=&hotlinkfix=1531761590360
http://photobucket.com/gallery/user/PhilosophiaKMC/media/cGF0aDovc3BlZWRibGl0emRlc3Ryb3lzcHJvYmUyLmpwZw==/?ref=&hotlinkfix=1531761592364
http://photobucket.com/gallery/user/PhilosophiaKMC/media/cGF0aDovc3BlZWRibGl0emRlc3Ryb3lzcHJvYmUzLmpwZw==/?ref=&hotlinkfix=1531761594478

And we go even lower, and we see Superman and Mongul barely beating one.

All of them are seemingly 'all out' Superman but see again and again that he has a higher ceiling, until he goes through armies of imperiex probes for extended periods of time.

Rebirth Superman? I think he was above 'conventional' heroes like Wonder Woman [as seen throughout the fight], but not close to that mindset where he could really go for the kill. In the scans above, it's heavily implied that Superman, in the OWAW state, could beat Doomsday [at that point H/P / DD Wars] right then and there.

Superman was explicitly Skyfather level while All Out in OWAW, as shown his ability to fight Darkseid as a peer, which was alluded to as a benchmark of his true power potential waaay back pre DoS in Red Glass in 1991:

Originally posted by panthergod
excellent breakdown -- OWAW explicitly validates the Red Glass Storyline - Superman is in innate potential a peer to Skyfather level characters Darkseid( who when all out he can kill in combat), and can one-two shot kill his Elite top tier peers when he cuts loose, establishing his greatest fear on a sun conscious level is losing control and going insane with power if he taps his full potential, the rationale for his subconscious mind's dynamic holding back factor:

Red Glass pat 1:
https://imgur.com/a/aqMe98y

Red Glass pt 2:
https://imgur.com/a/vWZgIuJ

Red Glass pt 3:
https://imgur.com/a/FlRp62m

[QUOTE=16579187]Originally posted by abhilegend
[B]So just looking for chronology of Superman in OWAW, I found that Superman went to several levels

of power in one arc alone.

First, Mongul shows Superman that he is limiting his power and he needs to go all out if he wants

to beat Imperiex (Probe).

https://postimg.cc/image/ki6tfqkod/
https://postimg.cc/image/9vd0ac7e5/
https://postimg.cc/image/oek5bqddp/
https://postimg.cc/image/719uwvpsd/
https://postimg.cc/image/x9kzm9x19/
https://postimg.cc/image/xz3ryn5al/
https://postimg.cc/image/wwtlg2zbx/
https://postimg.cc/image/d27jtzezh/
https://postimg.cc/image/q6d46oer1/

But even then Superman struggled to even stagger the imperiex probe even with Mongul helping him.

https://postimg.cc/image/iqdukvyrh/
https://postimg.cc/image/v50ml8df1/
https://postimg.cc/image/3ufbdbpxp/
https://postimg.cc/image/ybv64vsq5/
https://postimg.cc/image/476pjhl25/
https://postimg.cc/image/7qsn9b37h/
https://postimg.cc/image/t0g9k5yxp/
https://postimg.cc/image/nc9yt8s0d/

This same Superman was overpowerd by Validus created by Warworld easily. And Warworld could

easily create hundreds of such holograms.

https://postimg.cc/image/hpdlvachp/
https://postimg.cc/image/jh6kq68p9/
https://postimg.cc/image/72jspvjrx/
https://postimg.cc/image/7s2l28clp/
https://postimg.cc/image/evaghu2lp/
https://postimg.cc/image/fxkn0ddp9/

Then Superman went a level above and with very high difficulty managed to stalemate one probe who

even broke his arm and then defeated it.

https://postimg.cc/image/9wmy3gyul/
https://postimg.cc/image/oslhb2xel/
https://postimg.cc/image/c17b4k871/
https://postimg.cc/image/a9ec9n1ot/
https://postimg.cc/image/4xzfoyah9/
https://postimg.cc/image/84tz8k7rx/

One level above when he managed to do it without getting his arm broken but was messed up by one

probe's explosion.

https://postimg.cc/image/yd53y29wt/
https://postimg.cc/image/z2nwagd19/
https://postimg.cc/image/vvtcqt5fx/
https://postimg.cc/image/4xzfp308d/
https://postimg.cc/image/oslhb77q5/
https://postimg.cc/image/am5qfy1zx/
https://postimg.cc/image/iewe7xnel/

Then a whole another level where he essentially oneshotted innumerable Probes like nothing.

https://postimg.cc/image/4l81ix53x/
https://postimg.cc/image/72jsq7jvh/
https://postimg.cc/image/puvnts0u5/
https://postimg.cc/image/wy3j9dyjx/
https://postimg.cc/image/k6pd2w47h/

And yet another level when Brainiac 13 absorbs the entire power of Imperiex and has the total

power of Warworld at its command, Superman still manages to stalemate B13 in raw strength.

https://postimg.cc/image/puvnttb4t/
https://postimg.cc/image/3vp96lmkt/
https://postimg.cc/image/6d10duyrh/
https://postimg.cc/image/wlc53960d/

And just how powerful was one probe? Fortress Eradicator saw just imperiex probe destroy entire

galaxies and had to fly away from lightyeard of aftershocks just to get away from it.

https://postimg.cc/image/hcm7piewt/
https://postimg.cc/image/wlc53agb1/

One Imperiex probe destroyed Maxima's galaxy.

https://postimg.cc/image/oslhbd7rx/
https://postimg.cc/image/qx5ucg1ot/
https://postimg.cc/image/j4f6kgga5/
https://postimg.cc/image/yd53y8hod/
https://postimg.cc/image/hcm7pkrsd/

The galaxies were destroyed by probes creating a construct and channeling their power to destroy

the galaxy whose power was then channeled into Imperiex's ship.

https://postimg.cc/image/609m7tlod/
https://postimg.cc/image/3vp96qrrh/
https://postimg.cc/image/7qsn9b37h/
https://postimg.cc/image/t0g9k5yxp/
https://postimg.cc/image/nc9yt8s0d/

OWAW/Apokolips Now re-established precedent what was shown through implication in te Krypton Man/Red Glass/Blaze-Satannus War/DoS waaay back in 1991/92 -- a fully unleashed Superman is multiple times more powerful than his standard Elite top tier Class 100 levels at the time, a peer to Darkseid in combat(H/P Supes for example, was nowhere near Darkseid in power), can 1-2 shot kill/destroy elite top tiers/trans(above top tier on average) tier Imperiex Probes when fully cutting loose, and is absolutely on a par with Skyfather class beings. We also saw this when he saw him match Kal-L(1/2 of Silver Age Superman) and both of them directly overpower SBP(who has Silver age levels) [/B][/QUOTE]

OWAW/Apokolips Now re-established precedent what was shown through implication in te Krypton Man/Red Glass/Blaze-Satannus War/DoS waaay back in 1991/92 -- a fully unleashed Superman is multiple times more powerful than his standard Elite top tier Class 100 levels at the time, a peer to Darkseid in combat(H/P Supes for example, was nowhere near Darkseid in power), can 1-2 shot kill/destroy elite top tiers/trans(above top tier on average) tier Imperiex Probes when fully cutting loose, and is absolutely on a par with Skyfather class beings. We also saw this when he saw him match Kal-L(1/2 of Silver Age Superman) and both of them directly overpower SBP(who has Silver age levels) [/B][/QUOTE] [/QUOTE]