Originally posted by Galan007
I mean, Vader did state that the emotions Koth was feeling during their battle made him considerably more powerful than he ever was(or would have been) as a Jedi.That said, Vader still dominated him.
I suppose, but a Sith would say that. Even if this was Koth not fighting hindered mentally, it was him fighting out of practice.
Originally posted by SelenialIt didn't read like Vader monologuing to me, tbh... And considering that Koth fared better than anyone would have ever thought possible(dominated as he was), I'd say Vader's comment about his increased power was meant to be legit. /shrug
I suppose, but a Sith would say that. Even if this was Koth not fighting hindered mentally, it was him fighting out of practice.
As for Koth being out of practice: I really don't think he was. Even if we assume he wasn't coming home from church every night and training, this issue is only set like 2 or so years after the events of RotS... That isn't nearly enough time for Koth's skillset to notably devolve, imo(again, this is supported by his performance against Vader himself.)
Originally posted by Total WarriorI do not believe a formal explanation was ever given for Koth's removal from the Council. One day, *poof*, Agen Kolar had just replaced him.
Why was Koth even kicked out of the council? I don't remember it
End of the Clone WarsDuring the very last meetings of the Jedi High Council, the seats of Masters Rancisis, Koth, and Gallia were taken by Agen Kolar, Stass Allie, and Anakin Skywalker.
-SW.com
Originally posted by Selenial
I suppose, but a Sith would say that. Even if this was Koth not fighting hindered mentally, it was him fighting out of practice.
Nothing in the comic suggests he was out of practice m8.
Thats like saying Yoda is out of practice because he is an old fart and all he does is just sit on a chair all day. When that clearly isn't the case.
Originally posted by TheIndyJedi
Nothing in the comic suggests he was out of practice m8.
Thats like saying Yoda is out of practice because he is an old fart and all he does is just sit on a chair all day. When that clearly isn't the case.
Other than the fact he begs for his life because he’s done everything he can to distance himself from an order he hated, and that all he did was hold sermons.
He wasn’t exactly practicing sparring with his new wife. Two and a half years is a lengthy period of time. Yoda was confirmed to be sparring consistently. There’s a huge difference.
Originally posted by juggernaut74~2 years after RotS(give or take.)
So how many years after the Empire was formed did this issue take place?
Originally posted by juggernaut74I mean, the intro page doesn't necessarily have to be talking about rank... It could just as easily be referring to their literal power, given that it is simultaneously referencing the dynamic between Palpatine as the master, and Vader as the apprentice:
Because it clearly stated Vader was 2nd only to the Emperor.
That said, this issue was set early enough that Vader probably still 'outranked' Tarkin at the time... But even when Vader was the 'superior' officer, Palpatine made it clear that Tarkin was still off-limits to him.
Regardless, when Tarkin attained Grand Moff status, multiple sources(including the most recent Annual of Vader's own series) explicitly confirm that Tarkin undoubtedly outranked Vader. Tarkin was THE top dog in the Empire -- second only to Sheev himself.
Originally posted by victreebelvictrTarkin didn't have any qualms giving Vader orders, actually. Remember, Palpatine himself gave Tarkin supremacy over Vader, and moreover, told Vader that Tarkin was essentially acting as an extension of himself:
Well, Tarkin didn't order around Vader to much fearing that he would lose his life.
Had Vader acted against Tarkin in any way/shape/form, he would have undoubtedly incurred Palpatine's wrath. Vader is many things, but he isn't stupid enough to openly defy his Master.
Nah, check out the whole scene again. It's evident by Tarkin's dialogue that he outranks Vader across the board. Palpatine was just 'reminding' Vader of his subordinate position prior to sending him on that mission.
The hierarchy isn't murky at all, tbh. Numerous sources(I am only referencing Disney canon, mind you) explicitly state that Tarkin outranks Vader, and Vader outranks everyone else. IOW, Palpatine > Tarkin > Vader > ALL.
*And if you had only read the new Thrawn novel, you'd be inclined to think that Vader and Thrawn are the two highest commanding authorities in the entire Empire. The novel puts no real emphasis on the Empire's greater command superstructure, like its predecessor did. Fortunately, several other canon sources give us definitive clarification in that regard.
Originally posted by Galan007
Tarkin didn't have any qualms giving Vader orders, actually. Remember, Palpatine himself gave Tarkin supremacy over Vader, and moreover, told Vader that Tarkin was essentially acting as an extension of himself:Had Vader acted against Tarkin in any way/shape/form, he would have undoubtedly incurred Palpatine's wrath. Vader is many things, but he isn't stupid enough to openly defy his Master.
Originally posted by ares834There is really no reason to think the status quo between Tarkin and Vader ebbed and flowed like that after the former obtained Grand Moff status -- no sources allude to this, and the aforementioned novel also isn't indicative of such, imo. As mentioned, the novel also implies that Thrawn was not only THE highest ranking officer in the Empire under Vader, but also THE single most important being in Empire. While the latter may have some truth to it due to Thrawn's knowledge of the Unknown Regions, the former definitely isn't true -- Rebels(and a few other guidebooks) makes it clear that Thrawn was very much subordinate to Tarkin, for example. And again, this novel doesn't really attempt to break down the Empire's greater command superstructure like the first novel did -- it focuses solely on Vader/Thrawn, and it doesn't really attempt to go outside that bubble.
While Tarkin certainly outranks Vader that's merely at that time and does not preclude Vader returning to being the second highest ranked as mentioned in the Thrawn novel. By the time of ANH, it seems to have reverted once again.
At any rate, there are just WAY too many other canon sources which explicitly state that Tarkin outranked Vader(including a statement from Filoni himself), for me to think otherwise. /shrug
Thrawn was a far better tactician than Tarkin.
Tarkin outranked Thrawn, however, for a few simple reasons:
a.) Palpatine had known Tarkin a LOT longer(they first met well before the events of TPM), and was responsible for fashioning him into the military/political figurehead he eventually became... Wilhuff was always in Palpatine's favor.
b.) Tarkin was already a Grand Moff when Thrawn first joined the Empire.
