Originally posted by RealistRacism
@Unbowed: I'm not sure what any of that has to do with anything. Maul learning 'Sith Tradition' is about as relevant as Asajj learning 'Nightsister Tradition' and the potential argument is questionable, as the TPM novel states that Maul is at his peak, never to become any better. [/B]
You don't think it's a testament to Maul that he survived Sidious' training since infancy, given the fact that Sidious would dispose of him the instant Maul showed signs of not being worthy?
I like Ventress as a character and she is quite strong, but she is simply Maul lite. Anything she can do Maul can do better. His training is better, he is inherently stronger, his anger and hate are greater.
When Sidious felt Ventress might be a threat, he simply ordered Dooku to get rid of her. When he felt Maul was a threat, he showed up to do the deed himself.
As for the TPM quote, it is patently contradicted by TCW. He did become stronger, very quickly, despite the fact that he lost half his body and had a decade lapse in training.
It's relevant because because the Sith are the strongest Dark sider tradition around. You don't think the Banites acquired special knowledge and lore and techniques that random 'Dark Jedi' wouldn't have access to?
You don't think it's a testament to Maul that he survived Sidious' training since infancy, given the fact that Sidious would dispose of him the instant Maul showed signs of not being worthy?
I like Ventress as a character and she is quite strong, but she is simply Maul lite. Anything she can do Maul can do better. His training is better, he is inherently stronger, his anger and hate are greater.
When Sidious felt Ventress might be a threat, he simply ordered Dooku to get rid of her. When he felt Maul was a threat, he showed up to do the deed himself.
As for the TPM quote, it is patently contradicted by TCW. He did become stronger, very quickly, despite the fact that he lost half his body and had a decade lapse in training.
Originally posted by RealistRacism
You pretend as if he hasn't done this Maul as well... So we can conclusively rank Ventress below TPM Maul because Kenobi let loose a sassy one-liner? Thanks for providing context too 👆
That one liner pretty much sums up all of his interactions with her.
He has clearly always taken it easy on her.
Originally posted by RealistRacismAgain, nothing suggests Savage is above Ventress when she has both lightsabers.
What kind of nonesense is this?
Maul also used 1 Saber to stomp Opress.
Lets not get into shit tier debating now.
Originally posted by RealistRacism
Oh I see, we're operating under the Gillard tiering system. Why even bother with debate if it's all been sorted out by another person, amirite? Gillard and Lucas are infallible, they are incapable of being wrong.Also, Ventress wasn't in any of the movies... kek.
Point is pretty every source suggests Maul > Ventress. Even as of TPM.
That one liner pretty much sums up all of his interactions with her. He has clearly always taken it easy on her.
What kind of nonesense is this? Maul also used 1 Saber to stomp Opress. Lets not get into shit tier debating now.
Even so, what does this have to do with the topic again? Last time I checked, TPM Maul never faced Savage.
Point is pretty every source suggests Maul > Ventress. Even as of TPM.
[QUOTE=16707866]Originally posted by RealistRacism
@victre: How is being trained by Sidious really better than learning under Dooku? Before TPM, how much more did Sheev know about the dark side in comparison to the Count? Maul's training is always described as a sharpening of his physical and martial prowess, so it's not like he was being taught esoteric Sith techniques or anything that could take Ventress by surprise here. He can only really make use of basic TK and TP, lmao.
Are you stating that Dooku was more powerful than Sidious at the time of TPM?
That is strange thing to say, but I’ll roll with it.
Sidious never showed his power during TPM which is a let down, but how about we compare Sidious’s power a little after Maul’s death.
He Force Choked Dooku from another planet in the Clone Wars, he just so easily ragdolled Dooku.
If he had done this so easily in the Clone Wars, I doubt that Dooku was more powerful than him a little before then.
As for intelligence, I think we both know the answer to that. 🙂
I was mainly referring to the knowledge available to him at the time, but yes I do think Dooku is more powerful than TPM Palpatine and by proxy, Plagueis.
Sidious choked Dooku in TCW, a show that has Anakin being overpowered in bladelocks by Hondo, non-force sensitives having the ability to tank dozens of physical strikes from Anakin, pirates having the power to capture Dooku, passive force barriers are non-existent etc. I could go on forever really. The show is ridiculous, Sidious isn't powerful enough to do that to the Count outside of a children's cartoon.
Legends Dooku > TCW Sheev tbh
Originally posted by RealistRacism
Oh so you were actually using that as evidence. Combatants exchange banter all the time, Ventress herself does this to Kenobi and Anakin on several occasions. Lets not get into shit tier debating now.Maul was the one training him, so of course he could exploit any weakness in his Apprentice. This is also a false pretense; Assuming Asajj's mastery with a single-blade is on par with Maul's, which is demonstrably false. Maul has proven to be equally proficient with any configuration of weapon (a testament to his training) whereas Ventress obviously developed a dependence on the second blade, likely to compensate for her 'lack' of strength. This is evident in all of her fights where she's been disarmed.
Even so, what does this have to do with the topic again? Last time I checked, TPM Maul never faced Savage.
Those sources wouldn't have been created before Ventress' prime would they? Or rather, even before her first appearance? As a staunch defender of Maul, I expected better from you tbh.
I see all you can do is make a plethora of excuses for the several pieces of evidence against Venress like - she couldnt fight properly with 1 Saber Lmao - but have yet to make any kind of case for Ventress.
Shit tier debating at its finest 👆
Originally posted by RealistRacism
Oh I see, we're operating under the Gillard tiering system. Why even bother with debate if it's all been sorted out by another person, amirite? Gillard and Lucas are infallible, they are incapable of being wrong.Also, Ventress wasn't in any of the movies... kek.
The point is Maul is atleast approaching Dooku's level( And this is backed up by a number of sources, not just Gilliard) Which means he is beyond Ventress. Besides if you were to do a feat by feat comparison, then you will notice that Maul is obviously better.
Originally posted by juggernaut74
Ventress.
