Originally posted by cdtmThat's partly because Kale was already "losing power and nearly at her limit" by the time the Pride Troopers engaged her:
Again, Kale went from shrugging off Golden Freeza and Goku Blue, to being knocked around by a group of relatively weaker Pride Troopers, 'cause teamwork.If Kales that powerful, she should have tanked their attacks, the same way Toppo stood firm against Vegeta's best punch's.
As I said, if Goku were truly weaker than Jiren, it would be more akin to when ASSB Vegeta attacked him: Vegeta delivered several solid blows on Jiren, but in the end he only succeeded in giving Jiren a superficial scratch on his cheek, because he just wasn't powerful enough to cause any real damage at all:
https://i.imgur.com/WDUIRgi.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/dmonXFW.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/4ma3EPx.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/6PdNYTH.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/HC1QtKH.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/HosVpIr.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/bhx4sIY.jpg
If MUI Goku were actually weaker than Jiren(like you're saying), his strikes and whatnot would've had roughly the same effect as Vegeta's... But again, Goku's punches were f*cking wrecking Jiren.
Moreover, Goku was also blocking/parrying every single strike from an enraged, powered-up Jiren. If he were weaker, this wouldn't have been possible either.
We've been over this before.
If Jiren would have struck Roshi with the same caliber of punches he was using to pwn SSB Goku, he would have f*cking vaporized the old man. And since killing is strictly forbidden in the ToP, this may have resulted in the instant erasure of U11. Therefore, Jiren was obviously holding back immensely against Roshi(to say the least), as to not inadvertently kill him and violate the rules.
But what does faux-UI Roshi dodging a few of Jiren's massively suppressed strikes have to do with anything, anyway?
Originally posted by cdtmSpider-Man is a huge pussy though and no street leveler needs surprise attacks to hurt him or even take his blows.
It does for Daredevil and Shang Chi against Spider-Man.He can press 15 tons, and they still counter his attacks.
Now, who in Dragonball has parried and blocked attacks from ever landing clean, without being comparable in raw power? Not just one attack either, a barrage of attacks?
Spidey holds back against literally everyone, even his Rogue's Gallery. It's a Superman level mental block as shown by Superior Spider-Man(Doc Ock) very easily punching the strongest version of Scorpion (who had extra armor and fell 7 miles with a smile on his face) hard enough to knock his jaw off. He immediately theorized Spidey holds back a vast majority of his strength so he doesn't hurt or kill anyone.
And no street leveler should even be able to bloody his lip with as much damage as he takes from guys like Rhino and Sandman and Mr. Negative
Originally posted by KingD19Then that defeats his point even more. And it's not like these other characters don't have similar feats of hurting people beyond Spider-Man in strength. You bring up Rhino when we're supposed to just ignore him getting knocked out by these so called "weak" street levelers, among other characters.
Spidey holds back against literally everyone, even his Rogue's Gallery. It's a Superman level mental block as shown by Superior Spider-Man(Doc Ock) very easily punching the strongest version of Scorpion (who had extra armor and fell 7 miles with a smile on his face) hard enough to knock his jaw off. He immediately theorized Spidey holds back a vast majority of his strength so he doesn't hurt or kill anyone.And no street leveler should even be able to bloody his lip with as much damage as he takes from guys like Rhino and Sandman and Mr. Negative
Playing the PIS game on that part also deletes large amounts of feats for Spider-Man and these characters. You get to a point where 3/4 of their history doesn't count because they're technically human.
By feats these characters aren't as far away in striking abilities as cd pretends, and these characters can take his shots and effect him. That is not the case in what cd is trying to portray however. If Blanco Goku was weaker than Blue, then the blocking with no effect and parrying would make no sense.
Anyway, it says a lot when a red herring like that is attacked by use of the old "pis" argument when Dragonball is supposed to be the one that's inconsistent.
Originally posted by cdtm
Shang Chi, for example, can shatter steel doors and giant stone statues. Wilson Fisk lifted up entire scaffoldings, with Spidey on it, and pulled the rug up on a carpet filled with solid oak furniture.
Shang Chi...the man who can control Chi and has Chi in his name can use the legendary power of Chi to shatter steel doors and giant stone statues? You don't say.
And as for Fisk, he has been strong enough to scrap with Spidey for his entire career, despite being only considered a "street level human". But he's a "street level human" how Cap is a " street level human". He's not.
If you're going to use examples, use better ones. Because Shang for example has done stuff like block a hit from Hiroim, which would have been impossible without using his chi. Don't act like he did all of his feats through pure strength like a brick.
Chi use is a modern thing. 1970's/80's Master of Kung Fu (Time of the feats I referenced)had no mention at all of an ability to use chi. In fact, when he met Iron Fist, he called his chi move an otherworldly, supernatural ability.
Anyways, you can find plenty of examples from across the spectrum. Batman kicking over a largish tree, Daredevil flipping over a car, ect..
