Originally posted by Selenial
My mistake.I don't see her as near Mace either. I don't think there's a monumental gap between her, Plo and Kenobi, but there's still a noticeable gap. My point wasn't ever to argue that she was their equal. I was merely questioning the notion that Kit has better accolades in the ROTS novel, because that's unequivocally false. In regards to your response, I was merely curious what you thought of the quote referencing her with Dooku, Mace and Depa. I've seen the point on 'it refers to style' before, curious to see if you or others would defend it when looking at the context.
FWIW, if you or anyone thinks Fisto > Ti strongly enough to debate it, I'm down.
As for the styles, I don't see Ti being near Dooku in Makashi. She has a unique mix of Makashi and Ataru but I don't see her overall skill being anywhere near Dooku's. In a straight up Makashi contest Dooku would destroy her. Her use is too reliant on evasion which while is fine for Makashi, hasn't shown any of the skill in dealing with stronger opponents the way Dooku has.
Fisto VS Ti is close although I feel it'd be Fisto's speed that throws Ti off due to the fact that her style is based around being faster than her opponent.
Originally posted by TheNuisanceBird
As for the styles, I don't see Ti being near Dooku in Makashi. She has a unique mix of Makashi and Ataru but I don't see her overall skill being anywhere near Dooku's. In a straight up Makashi contest Dooku would destroy her. Her use is too reliant on evasion which while is fine for Makashi, hasn't shown any of the skill in dealing with stronger opponents the way Dooku has.Fisto VS Ti is close although I feel it'd be Fisto's speed that throws Ti off due to the fact that her style is based around being faster than her opponent.
Fair enough, though dodging slightly. My question was more to do with her standing comparative to the rest of the council (bar Mace, Anakin and Yoda).
I disagree with speed though, what makes you think her style is based on being faster than her opponent? I'm confident you're mistaken, Fisto relies on being significantly faster than his opponent, so if anyone can even remotely keep up with his speed his Form I is a huge disadvantage. I don't actually think he's faster than her, let alone significantly faster, I'd say it's the other way around.
Originally posted by Selenial
Fair enough, though dodging slightly. My question was more to do with her standing comparative to the rest of the council (bar Mace, Anakin and Yoda).I disagree with speed though, what makes you think her style is based on being faster than her opponent? I'm confident you're mistaken, Fisto relies on being significantly faster than his opponent, so if anyone can even remotely keep up with his speed his Form I is a huge disadvantage. I don't actually think he's faster than her, let alone significantly faster, I'd say it's the other way around.
On what? Her being ranking? The three you mentioned she's definitely below. I'd put her as a tier 7.
Her formula is based on her being able to fight blade to blade but also constantly reposition herself to avoid taking people head on due to her lack of strength.
She hasn't really done well when forced to fight people head on. While she was tired the first time she fought Grievous, it still is a good representation of her weaknesses blade to blade.
Originally posted by TheNuisanceBird
On what? Her being ranking? The three you mentioned she's definitely below. I'd put her as a tier 7.Her formula is based on her being able to fight blade to blade but also constantly reposition herself to avoid taking people head on due to her lack of strength.
She hasn't really done well when forced to fight people head on. While she was tired the first time she fought Grievous, it still is a good representation of her weaknesses blade to blade.
Interesting analysis. Given Galen's strength, yet still struggling with hers on occasion, I disagree. We've also seen some pretty decent strength feats (some of which, I admit, I never bothered to put on my RT) that put her force augmented strength pretty highly.
She does reposition a lot, I admit, but many sources indicate that's due to her not having any reason not to. A weakness of Ataru and many acrobatic styles is making yourself blind to certain things, her montrals completely negate that disadvantage, so keeping opponents on their feet is only a positive for her.
It's a shame we never saw her novel reach the light of day, I'd be interested in seeing a prosaic breakdown of her style. As it stands though I think your view is fairly unsubstantiated...
Originally posted by Selenial
Interesting analysis. Given Galen's strength, yet still struggling with hers on occasion, I disagree. We've also seen some pretty decent strength feats (some of which, I admit, I never bothered to put on my RT) that put her force augmented strength pretty highly.She does reposition a lot, I admit, but many sources indicate that's due to her not having any reason not to. A weakness of Ataru and many acrobatic styles is making yourself blind to certain things, her montrals completely negate that disadvantage, so keeping opponents on their feet is only a positive for her.
It's a shame we never saw her novel reach the light of day, I'd be interested in seeing a prosaic breakdown of her style. As it stands though I think your view is fairly unsubstantiated...
She's overpowered (inconsistent) Magnaguards and had to use acrobatics to generate enough force to get her to stagger Marek from what I remember. I'm not saying she's weak, just compared to other council members she doesn't really have any feats that suggest she can overpower anyone around her level.
Her montrals give her an advantage in her style, true. But in a one versus one fight or a team battle that's direct and unified, it won't matter if everyone knows where everyone is anyways.
Fair enough. It's mostly because we don't have enough examples of Shaak Ti fighting people under normal circumstances. But taking what we have it'd make sense. I'm not saying Ventress is her equal but Asajj uses a very similar approach to Ti and has (even potentially) similar strengths and weaknesses.