CW: John Constantine vs Damien Darhk (Read OP)

So, this is not a conventional Versus fight (Darhk would win that pretty easily IMO). This is about which magical powerset people think is better overall.

Now, I am sure a lot of people will say Darhk, based off of initial gut reaction. And it's true that his magical powers make him an absolute beast in a physical encounter.

However, while John's magic might not be as tailored towards physical conflict (although he does know a few useful combat-related spells), I feel that he has shown a lot more versatility in what he can do with his spells.

So, it's basically combat mage vs utility/support mage. Which would you choose and why?

Personally, I am somewhat torn. Very few people could mess with you if you were Darhk, but I could probably find a lot more everyday use for John's skill set.

Doh, made a mistake in the thread title.

Fixed the title.

To give those unfamiliar with this version of Constantine some insight into what I mean versatility, here is a decent respect thread I found:

https://www.reddit.com/r/respectthreads/comments/9bpax1/john_constantine_cw_arrowverse/

Also found this while browsing feats for the two:

YouTube video

They only listed his direct kills. If we include the Havenrock nuke, which he launched, the numbers spike to the tens of thousands.

So, one has a whole grab bag of magical spells, but the other one can force choke people via a monitor, Vader-style, like Darhk does to kill number 4.

DD for me; straight up more practical in fights.
He’s no sold things as mundane as fists/blades/bullets/arrows, to super speed attacks to science/energy attacks to nuclear powers.
He’s also immortal for the most part, which is a bonus. Even if we arent counting his assassin training, thats more than enough.

John isnt in that league; though he has some stuff of his own going on, its more esoteric, and comes w. a ton of baggage as he’s always in hock to someone/thing, in peril of losing his soul.

Well, the stuff with John's soul being in peril is less to do with his magical skills and more to do with poor life choices and constantly getting dragged into magical conflicts, like Manny did to him in his solo series. This version of John is slightly less dickish than his comic counterpart traditionally is, so he often gets roped into other people's messes because he can't say no (or says no initially, only to end up helping anyway), and ends up having to pay a price.

Didnt John send that fairy godmother to hell pretty easily? Thats a hell of a Bfr (pun intended).

I think hes also created shields.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Didnt John send that fairy godmother to hell pretty easily? Thats a hell of a Bfr (pun intended).

I think hes also created shields.

He did it to the unicorn as well (though not before it got Gary's nipple), and would have done so to the shapeshifter if the team hadn't change their minds.

But yeah, I noticed, after looking in more detail, that the respect thread doesn't have some of his absolute latest feats from Legends, like the hell portal BFR, that weird golden binding leash thing he used on the fairy godmother, depowering the shapeshifter etc.

And those portals are pretty useful, yeah. Even though he has only used them against evil magical beings so far, I am willing to bet that hell portals don't discriminate much lol, so he can probably use it on others as well.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Well, the stuff with John's soul being in peril is less to do with his magical skills and more to do with poor life choices and constantly getting dragged into magical conflicts, like Manny did to him in his solo series. This version of John is slightly less dickish than his comic counterpart traditionally is, so he often gets roped into other people's messes because he can't say no (or says no initially, only to end up helping anyway), and ends up having to pay a price.

Nothing you replied w. is serving to change my mind.
Like most mages JC works on a kind of barter system, getting this to use at such time in exchange for that, ad nauseum.
And this is a guy who mostly knows what he’s doing, still walking around w. things looking to collect, and or kill him. No one on this site’s lasting a day.
DD’s way more direct in how he’s sourced and what he can do.
And yeah, like Darth mentioned, JC can make shields...k. DD has has completely no sold (not survived, not managed to deflect) everything thrown at him magical or otherwise.
As for JC sending a FGM (and unicorn) to hell, that had context. The FGM was depowered after being defeated through a lot of luck, and the unicorn took a combined effort. So, lets not OVERsell the spell (of which we have no details re: how often it can be used in succession or what it takes to have at the ready, though JC has complained about having to keep it open, as opposed to DD’s abilities which we do know how he can use and that they are, basically, at will).

I dont think i need to ‘bash’ JC to uphold my point, and i wont. He has his strong points. They just arent enough for me to try and master his powerset when DD’s basically translates to invulnerability/strength/flight/TK...basic comic book character powers i understand, and already know where they come from.

Well, wasn't really trying to change your mind. Just pointing out that the crap in John's life is more to do with just having a sucky life than anything else. The guy's life has been shit literally since the day he was born, as revealed in more detail during that bar scene where he went to try and prevent his own conception.

If you think Darhk is a better choice, that is totally fair enough. For me, personally, I could just really see myself using some of the more mundane spells John knows quite often. Like the minor tk spells (if you just need something out of reach, to open a door without getting up etc.), or the tracking spells (in case you lose something), or the direction spells (if you are lost) etc.

Regarding the whole spell cost thing though. I don't think performing general feats take that much. I think it's particular/specific events/rituals that tend to get John into those situations.

Because John isn't exactly shy about flinging magic around. Hell, he used a spell to set Mick's foot on fire pretty much purely for shits and giggles, and used another spell to unlock and open his door for Sara because he was too lazy to get off the couch. I feel like if performing general magical feats had a notable cost, he wouldn't be so casual about it.

N’importe quoi! 👆

Also, I kind of have a morbid curiosity about kill 6 in that vid. What even breaks there? You just hear a loud crunch and she collapses. Her neck snaps back, so maybe that? But then it could also be whiplash from having her back rapidly snapped... I am spending way too much thought on this.

He also dropped a fire ball on Mick's foot like outta nowhere. So there is that in terms of offensive abilities.

And he was gonna send the shapeshifter to hell even though she's not a demonic being (that's the impression I got anyway), suggesting he can send anyone there.

Well, suggesting he’s willing to try.

Well, the fact that Gary almost got pulled into one with the unicorn suggests that humans can also get dragged along.

One issue with the portal spell, as with a lot of his spells though, is that is isn't particularly quick. It takes him a couple of seconds to say the incantation and make the hand gestures required to open one of them. Any opponent with fast, ranged attacks has a solid chance of dropping him before he can finish the spell.

I feel like he'd be more effective on a team, during a fight, than solo, as he would then have partners to potentially buy him time to get off some spells without being interrupted.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Well, the fact that Gary almost got pulled into one with the unicorn suggests that humans can also get dragged along.

One issue with the portal spell, as with a lot of his spells though, is that is isn't particularly quick. It takes him a couple of seconds to say the incantation and make the hand gestures required to open one of them. Any opponent with fast, ranged attacks has a solid chance of dropping him before he can finish the spell.

I feel like he'd be more effective on a team, during a fight, than solo, as he would then have partners to potentially buy him time to get off some spells without being interrupted.

I'm sure it was pretty immediate with the fairy godmother. Perhaps he prepped for it beforehand?

Originally posted by Darth Thor
I'm sure it was pretty immediate with the fairy godmother. Perhaps he prepped for it beforehand?

Well, I don't mean that it takes super long, but it did take a few seconds in both instances:

YouTube video

YouTube video

IIRC, it took longer the first time with the unicorn, but that was probably because the spell was still new to him.

But still, a few seconds might not seem much in normal activities, but it can make a huge difference in the middle of a fight.

Edit: Though on rewatching that, I am betting that he did at least somewhat prep for the godmother, as his incantation is the shortest there. Assuming you can prep it for later release. Might just be a CW inconsistency too. It's not like that would be anything new.

Also didn't he basically tell Oliver to run from Darhk when Oli asked Constantine for help/advice in the Damien Darhk season of Arrow? Lol

Although he hadn't shown many combat abilities at that point.

Well, he did show a bit. But, again, the spell in question is not exactly quick, and he needs to do a bit of ducking and dodging in between verses before he can finish it. From around 2:38 mark:

YouTube video

In comparison, Darhk can do the same with just a gesture.