Kept it under 10k chars for ya. Short, sweet, and gets the job done.
Qel-Droma and Ventress (Kurk & Jack)
Post 2: response 1 by Kurk
In this post I will discuss why in the hypothetical match up of Ulic Qel-Droma & Asajj Ventress vs Darth Wyyrlok & Talon—focusing specifically on the pairing of Wyyrlok and Qel-Droma—that the former team would emerge victorious.
I will do this by simply arguing that the disparity of light-saber proficiency between Ulic and Wyyrlok dwarfs that of their force-power proficiency, hence guaranteeing that Qel-Droma, with his exceptional track-record as a swordsman, will overwhelm his opponent. In the second half of my post I will address the claims made by SupremeSkillz.
A significant amount of time when writing these posts is spent referencing materials. Because ToR era is Skillz’s bread and butter, I will not be directly referencing general events (e.g Qel-Droma and Kun stalemating in Tales of the Jedi). If anyone needs clarification in that regard, please do ask.
The case for Ulic
When examining Ulic Qel-Droma as an effective combatant, two key points stand out to me:
1. He was an exceptional, top-tier, light-saber duelist who never lost a fight; equal to the legendary Exar Kun
2. He was a competent force wielder, possessing knowledge to defend himself against advanced force attacks (like those used by Wyyrlok)
Point One:
Many sources hold Qel-Droma in high regard when concerning his light-saber dueling abilities; his most well-known feat of course being stalemating Exar Kun in combat, who in turn was the undisputed master swordsman of his time:
Exar Kun and Ulic fought, but they were too evenly matched for either to gain the upper hand. Their battle might have gone on for hours but for the macabre manifestation of a host of Sith spirits, led by the shade of Marka Ragnos.- The Dark Side Sourcebook
While Exar Kun and Ulic Qel-Droma battled, spirits of ancient Sith Lords observed the contest. The Sith spirits saw that the battle would ultimately end with both men dead; therefore, it would be of no use to the Sith if the fight continued. They immediately stopped the battle and declared that Kun and Qel-Droma would be the new Dark Lords of the Sith.- Power of the Jedi Sourcebook
As a young Jedi Knight, Exar Kun exhibited a strong connection to the Force. Through long practice he achieved unparalleled prowess in lightsaber combat.- Gnost-Dural (Star Wars: The Old Republic - Timeline - The Exar Kun War)
Additionally we know that Ulic actually possessed a mastery of Djem So:
- Knights of the Old Republic Campaign Guide
—while no source exists stating that Darth Wyyrlok possessed mastery of any of the seven lightsaber forms (unless you can provide one of course).
It is significant that in all of Wyyrlok’s fights, he engages with his force powers, never pulling out a blade unless absolutely necessary.
When faced with the lightsaber wielding dark-side adepts, he resorts to sith illusions and force lightning to confuse and kill the lot, respectively (Star Wars Legacy Issue 27).
When fighting Darth Andeddu he again relied solely on his force powers to duel, not his light-saber abilities.
Even when facing a resurrected Krayt, Wyyrlok was wise enough to keep his distance and engage with lightning and telekinesis in an attempt to keep his former master from closing the gap and striking him down once within lightsaber range.
When forced to duel, Wyyrlok was capable of lasting a short while against Krayt (although it should be noted that even a hastily trained Cade Skywalker was able to last longer [10 frames for Cade; only 4 four for Wyyrlok; count ‘em])
(Star Wars Legacy Issue 19 and Star Wars Legacy War Issue 1, respectively.)
Overall Wyyrlok was more than likely an elementary wielder of the lightsaber as insinuated by his consistent showings of avoiding sword engagement whenever possible in combat, in addition to his lack of accolades vouching for his saber competency. He performed far worse than even a newly trained Cade Skywalker did against Krayt.
On the contrary, Ulic Qel-Droma was at the very least second, if not equal to, the confirmed best lightsaber combatant during his era.
In this hypothetical match-up, Wyyrlok would only be able to keep his distance for so long. I’d imagine the fight would be similar to that of Krayt vs Wyyrlok where the latter opened up with telekinetic and lightning attacks, but was quickly cut down when the gap was closed.
In the next section, I will briefly discuss why Ulic Qel-Droma possesses the necessary know-how to contend with Wyyrlok’s powers long enough to close the relatively small starting distance (10 meters as agreed to in the original post) and dominate him in close-quarters combat.
Point 2:
While exceptional as a swordsman, Qel-Droma is also more than competent as a force practioner.
He possesses a knowledge of tutaminis to protect himself from Wyyrlok’s force lightning:
- Knights of the Old Republic Campaign Guide
and additionally has demonstrated this ability in the form of force barrier, in this case deflecting fire from a Basilisk War Droid:
It should be said that the firepower from a Basilisk was capable of puncturing holes through star-ships:
“A basilisk war droid boasted a number of exotic weapons, including a nose cluster of shockwave generator rods that could fire a hull-puncturing plasma burst.”- Star Wars The New Essential Guide to Droids, page 87
Hence it is reasonable to deduce that Qel-Droma is absolutely capable of defending himself from Wyyrlok’s force powers—definitely long enough to close the gap and engage him in lightsaber combat.
Response to Skillz
On the topic of Bane’s methods of dispatching the cultists vs Wyyrlok’s:
Wyyrlok was wise, unlike Bane, to indirectly dispatch the cultists, relying on force illusions to trick the followers into killing one another. He only dispatched the remaining two personally with lightning. Bane on the other hand appeared to create a radiating dark-side force aura, obviously a very demanding attack, to kill the cultists:
He called upon the power of the temple itself, feeding on it to bolster his own abilities as he created a deadly field around his body. It began as a tight circle, but quickly spread outward until it extended to a radius of ten meters, with the Sith Lord at the center.dynasty-of-evil.bib.bz/chapter-eight
Cloaked in the shadowy gloom, Bane simply held his ground against the enemy assault. The front ranks of onrushing cultists shrieked in agony as they entered the field, their life essence violently sucked out of their bodies, aging them a thousand years in only a few seconds. Muscles and tendons atrophied instantaneously; their skin withered and shrank, pulling tight across their bones. Eyes and tongues shriveled, turning them into mummified husks before their desiccated flesh crumbled away, leaving only skeletal remains and a few strands of hair.dynasty-of-evil.bib.bz/chapter-eight
It would be quite misleading to compare two different indirect versus direct methods of dispatching similar opponents and then use the two events to compare Bane and Wyyrlok’s level of strength in the force.
Of course Wyyrlok used only an iota of his strength—he created mere illusions of himself to trick the cultists into killing each other—a demonstration of craftiness more than anything. Bane went for a completely head-on approach by creating and unleashing an obscure, taxing wave of dark energy to drain his enemies of their life essence. The two are vastly different in the demands they require, and hence invalidate your scaling of Wyyrlok based on Bane being fatigued after dispatching the cultists versus the former using a fraction of his power.
Even if your comparison was reasonable, we could get into the details of your Kaan-Bane scaling, but I really don’t want to copy and paste what I responded to Azronger with in our debate here: comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/cav-the-rule-of-two-azronger-vs-the-sith-brotherho-1952871/
I also address the amulet issue there.