So let's talk Brexit

Started by Robtard33 pages

Originally posted by jaden_2.0
Well it was certainly an eventful day on the ol' Brexit front today.

The government lost control of the legislative agenda when 27 members of their own party including several former senior cabinet members voted against them and their House of Commons majority of 1 was wiped out when during the Prime Minister's speech to the House, one of their MP's stood up and crossed the chamber and sat on the opposition benches signalling his resignation and defection from the Tory party.

Oh lordy. Putinbot mentioned that fragile 'majority of one' before and how easily it could potentially turn sour for Boris. Blackmore (It's_XYZ) disagreed and didn't see a problem there; guess he was wrong yet again.

Anyhow. Does this mean that Boris is now going to have to beg the EU for another extension? What's the best outcome Boris can hope for now?

I've been following the Brexit ordeal rather closely.

There's massive amounts of lies from both sides. And if I'm to arbitrarily throw out a number, I'd say the lies are signifcantly more one-sided towards the Bexiteers. More specifically, Remainders lie once for every 2 Bexiteer lies.

That's just my opinion and I haven't collected raw counts. Just feels like the pro-Brexit group lies much more often than the remainers.

It's an utter shambles. Totally ridiculous political machinations that have absolutely nothing to do with the good of the country. You have Prime Minister Boris Johnson claiming he doesn't want a General Election but tried to force one anyway and an opposition party who has for months claimed they wanted a General Election and didn't support the vote to trigger it because the timing of it would wipe both parties out at the ballot box.

You have a government full of ministers who have voted against their own party literally hundreds of times without consequence who have now expelled 21 MP's for voting against them last night. They included Winston Churchill's grandson, kicked out the same party his Grandfather led through WWII on the anniversary of Britain entering WWII. It also also included Philip Hammond, who until 6 weeks ago held the 2nd highest office of state as Chancellor of the Exchequer as well as several other senior and junior cabinet ministers.

Britain likes to hang out with us.
We should petition the United Nations to allow the first Security Council to adopt a temporary seat in honor of Africa. From Africa of course.
The Brits are great to have taught us our lessons in that continent.

Why do people keep bringing up America like it's at all relevant to the discussion... ermm

Well honesty we won all the wars.

Originally posted by dadudemon
I've been following the Brexit ordeal rather closely.

There's massive amounts of lies from both sides. And if I'm to arbitrarily throw out a number, I'd say the lies are signifcantly more one-sided towards the Bexiteers. More specifically, Remainders lie once for every 2 Bexiteer lies.

That's just my opinion and I haven't collected raw counts. Just feels like the pro-Brexit group lies much more often than the remainers.

The lies are not comparable on both sides. Interestingly Winston Churchill speaking in 46, coined the idea of a United States of Europe, which is all the EU is.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Why do people keep bringing up America like it's at all relevant to the discussion... ermm
I honestly have no idea.

Originally posted by Blakemore
****ing no deal.

End of discussion

👆

Today brought another MP resignation from Boris Johnson's Conservative Party. It was Boris Johnson's brother.

People saying 'the votes are in, nothing can be done about it now', are conveniently forgetting that the U.K. people voted 'No' to war in Iraq and the government ignored it and went to war anyway. There is precedent for the U.K. government ignoring the will of the people.

They only went there because they were certain the vote would swing their way, and they'd have an easy way the diffuse the pro Brexit side, ala "The people have spoken, we only follow the will of the people!"

And they likely would have backed off, because they wouldn't have had a leg to stand on.

So they lost their chance to shut them down, but that doesn't mean they need to play fair. (I won't say the entire anti-Brexit side cares more about winning, then fair play, but I'd imagine most invested politicians could give a shit about playing fair over winning the game of thrones.)

Originally posted by Wonder Man
Well honesty we won all the wars.

No.

The USA lost the following wars:

War of 1812
Powder River Indian War
Red Cloud's War
Formosa Expedition (Paiwan War)
Second Samoan War
Russian Civil War
Korean War
Bay of Pigs Invasion
Vietnam War

https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/wars-the-united-states-didn-t-win.html

Originally posted by Putinbot1
The lies are not comparable on both sides.

I reviewed some of the lies on both sides. Both sides have done some very horrendous and terribly lying. You're obviously a remainer. So you obviously don't want to acknowledge the horrendous bullshit the remainers have been spewing. That's understandable.

I'm an outsider looking in who has an interest in a united world happening. The EU falling apart is not something I want. That takes us a step back. But I don't bring much of a bias beyond preferring we move forward with a UW.

Originally posted by dadudemon
No.

The USA lost the following wars:

War of 1812
Powder River Indian War
Red Cloud's War
Formosa Expedition (Paiwan War)
Second Samoan War
Russian Civil War
Korean War
Bay of Pigs Invasion
Vietnam War

https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/wars-the-united-states-didn-t-win.html

lol we did NOT lose the 'War of 1812' I don't give a shit what the source in your link says. That was known as our second war of independence and it finally made the brits understand once and for all to stay out of our damn business.

We may've lost most of the battles (considering what we were up against, it's not surprising; brits had lots of help from the native americans and Canada was on their side as well) but we won the war. Period.

We are 2-0 against the brits despite what little sore loser pooty bot may think. 😛

Originally posted by eThneoLgrRnae
lol we did NOT lose the 'War of 1812' I don't give a shit what the source in your link says. That was known as our second war of independence and it finally made the brits understand once and for all to stay out of our damn business.

We may've lost most of the battles (considering what we were up against, it's not surprising; brits had lots of help from the native americans and Canada was on their side as well) but we won the war. Period.

We are 2-0 against the brits despite what little sore loser pooty bot may think. 😛

In this instance, the facts do not agree with your opinion. It was a disastrous war and almost caused New England states to secede. It almost led to our first Civil War.

Here's the historical summary of the War of 1812:

The Americans were angry with the British for many reasons.

The British didn't withdraw from American territory in the Great Lakes region as they agreed to in the 1783 Treaty of Paris.
-Britain kept aiding Native Americans.
-Britain would not sign favorable commercial agreements with the U.S.
-Impressment: Britain claimed the right to take any British sailors serving on -American merchant ships. In practice, the British took many American sailors and forced them to serve on British ships. This was nothing short of kidnapping.

In 1807, The British ship Leopard fired on the American frigate Chesapeake. Other American merchant ships came under harassment from the British navy.

War Hawks in Congress pushed for the conflict.

But the United States was not really ready for war. The Americans hoped to get a jump on the British by conquering CANADA in the campaigns of 1812 and 1813. Initial plans called for a three-pronged offensive: from LAKE CHAMPLAIN to Montreal; across the Niagara frontier; and into Upper Canada from Detroit.

The first American attacks were disjointed and failed. Detroit was surrendered to the British in August 1812. The Americans also lost the BATTLE OF QUEENSTON HEIGHTS in October. Nothing much happened along Lake Champlain and the American forces withdrew in late November.

In 1813, the Americans tried an intricate attack on Montreal by a combined land and sea operation. That failed.

One bright spot for the Americans was OLIVER HAZARD PERRY's destruction of the BRITISH FLEET on Lake Erie in September 1813 that forced the British to flee from Detroit. The British were overtaken in October defeated at the battle of the Thames by Americans led by William Henry Harrison, the future President It was here that the Shawnee chief, and British ally, Tecumseh fell.

Minor victories aside, things looked bleak for the Americans in 1814. The British were able to devote more men and ships to the American arena after having defeated Napoleon.

England conceived of a three-pronged attack focusing on controlling major waterways. Control of the Hudson River in New York would seal off New England; seizing New Orleans would seal up the Mississippi River and seriously disrupt the farmers and traders of the Midwest; and by attacking the Chesapeake Bay, the British hoped to threaten Washington, D.C. and put an end to the war and pressure the U.S. into ceding territory in a peace treaty.

All the while, support for the war waned in America. Associated costs skyrocketed. New England talked of succeeding from the Union. At the Hartford Convention, delegates proposed constitutional amendments that would limit the power of the executive branch of government.

So weak was American military opposition that the British sashayed into Washington D.C. after winning the BATTLE OF BLADENSBURG and burned most of the public buildings including the White House. PRESIDENT MADISON had to flee the city. His wife Dolley gathered invaluable national objects and escaped with them at the last minute. It was the nadir of the war.

But the Americans put up a strong opposition in Baltimore and the British were forced to pull back from that city. In the north, about 10,000 British army veterans advanced into the United States via Montreal: their goal was New York City. With American fortunes looking their bleakest, American CAPTAIN THOMAS MACDONOUGH won the naval battle of Lake Champlain destroying the British fleet. The British army, fearful of not being supplied by the British navy, retreated into Canada.

The War of 1812 came to an end largely because the British public had grown tired of the sacrifice and expense of their twenty-year war against France. Now that Napoleon was all but finally defeated, the minor war against the United States in North America lost popular support. Negotiations began in August 1814 and on Christmas Eve the TREATY OF GHENT was signed in Belgium. The treaty called for the mutual restoration of territory based on pre-war boundaries and with the European war now over, the issue of American neutrality had no significance.

In effect, the treaty didn't change anything and hardly justified three years of war and the deep divide in American politics that it exacerbated.

Popular memory of the War of 1812 might have been quite so dour had it not been for a major victory won by American forces at New Orleans on January 8, 1815. Although the peace treaty had already been signed, news of it had not yet arrived on the battlefront where GENERAL ANDREW JACKSON led a decisive victory resulting in 700 British casualties versus only 13 American deaths. Of course, the BATTLE OF NEW ORLEANS had no military or diplomatic significance, but it did allow Americans to swagger with the claim of a great win.

Furthermore, the victory launched the public career of Andrew Jackson as a new kind of American leader totally different from those who had guided the nation through the Revolution and early republic. The Battle of New Orleans vaunted Jackson to heroic status and he became a symbol of the new American nation emerging in the early 19th century.

http://www.ushistory.org/us/21f.asp

Edit - Deleted my abusive language at the end of my post. It won't help accomplish anything by mocking you.

Originally posted by samhain
People saying 'the votes are in, nothing can be done about it now', are conveniently forgetting that the U.K. people voted 'No' to war in Iraq and the government ignored it and went to war anyway. There is precedent for the U.K. government ignoring the will of the people.

What are talking about?

Originally posted by jaden_2.0
Today brought another MP resignation from Boris Johnson's Conservative Party. It was Boris Johnson's brother.

Say a snippet that read he's "torn between family loyalty and the national interest", does that mean he thinks Boris' ideas on Brexit are shit for the UK?

Originally posted by Robtard
Say a snippet that read he's "torn between family loyalty and the national interest", does that mean he thinks Boris' ideas on Brexit are shit for the UK?

Boris doesn't have any ideas from Brexit. The former Chancellor of the Exchequer said as much in Parliament. He told the House that Boris was basically lying about negotiations going well with the EU because he knows there are no negotiations happening and there hasn't been any since Boris became PM.

Boris' plan, along with Jacob Rees Mogg, the Tory Leader of the House and most of the other cabinet members, is to do nothing and let the UK have no deal with the EU from November 1st (it'll be only the 3rd country in the world not to have a trade deal with the EU. There's not only no plan to do a deal with the EU, but there's also no plan on replacing any of the trade deals we have with non-EU countries that we immediately stop being part of after we drop out of the EU

Originally posted by jaden_2.0
Boris doesn't have any ideas from Brexit. The former Chancellor of the Exchequer said as much in Parliament. He told the House that Boris was basically lying about negotiations going well with the EU because he knows there are no negotiations happening and there hasn't been any since Boris became PM.

Boris' plan, along with Jacob Rees Mogg, the Tory Leader of the House and most of the other cabinet members, is to do nothing and let the UK have no deal with the EU from November 1st (it'll be only the 3rd country in the world not to have a trade deal with the EU. There's not only no plan to do a deal with the EU, but there's also no plan on replacing any of the trade deals we have with non-EU countries that we immediately stop being part of after we drop out of the EU

A leader lying about nonexistent deals and plans "in the works", that sounds very familiar.

You describe what amounts to a complete shitshow. What can you expect to happen to your economy under these no-deal exit and no set plans to reestablish trade deals?

What are the two other countries? Curious.