Originally posted by Putinbot1
The fact a vote for Brexit took place shows EU member states always had sovereignty.
Originally posted by Putinbot1
You clearly are clueless. For onstance the UK has ignored numerous EU directives, like the destruction of DNA records and fingerprints of people arrested.
Bingo
Being in the EU doesn't erase people's way of life or trample on their traditions. Not in any massive way.
If Britain doesn't want to be in the EU, then that's their choice; the problem is that the government there thought that they could still get the benfits of being in the EU without any of the drawbacks. Their attitude towards Ireland alone shows that they thought they could have their cake and eat it too, and it's only in seeing that the EU isn't bending over, that they're realising what they might be losing.
And let's be honest; it's not like separating is some blanket series of benefits, especially considering the British government's attitude towards its own citizens in certain areas like privacy and such.
Sounds like the whole thing is really up in the air right now, no one really knows, once again, what the heck is going to happen now that May delayed the vote.
I think the whole thing will probably just fail in the long run, I think Brexit will probably never really come to fruition, and if it does it will be such a meek version of it that it will just end up being in name only.
There are plenty of things we vote on here that never really come to fruition. In California there was just a ballot initiative that passed essentially rejecting daylight savings time, but it will likely never happen because of various hurdles and technicalities.
With Brexit it was known from the start that the referendum was non binding. I think the British government does deserve at least some credit for seemingly making a sincere effort to follow the will of the people even though those in power don't think it's a good idea.
I honestly don't think its that big of a deal, they still run off the pound, they are an island and have their own standing government, stock exchange, military, and intelligence services.
Why is it so hard to get out of the EU, and on that note, why should any deal be a binding deal for an indefinite amount of time?
Well it's not like it will cause armageddon or anything, but it could have a significant impact on their economy if it's not done very carefully, and obviously no politician in power wants to preside over a large hit to the economy.
I'm sure there are legitimate complaints over whatever deal they have with the EU, but I think the way the whole thing has played out has probably only weakened Britain's power in negotiations because the EU knows that 1) those in power don't really want to do it and 2) Time is on their side in all this, the longer this plays out the less likely it is that Brexit comes to pass, so the EU has no real reason to play ball or do anything but drag their feet and just go "haha, you guys ****ed up, have fun".
Originally posted by dadudemon
I didn't say it, you did. peaches
Yeah, most of them didn't know what the EU was. And as the articles below show, a strong argument can be made for racism, one I agree with as a Brit and an Expat.
Originally posted by Putinbot1
Yeah, most of them didn't know what the EU was. And as the articles below show, a strong argument can be made for racism, one I agree with as a Brit and an Expat.
Perhaps we are living in our own bubble on KMC and take for granted that we are all fairly informed. We mock each other for being stupid, dumb, ignorant, biased, etc.
But what we do not acknowledge is that we are a bunch of nerds posting on a dying forum. It's not that we are better than the rest of the population. We find these things interesting: hence the "nerd" label. But most people don't know about this stuff. They don't care. We should remember that what we find important is not important to a huge portion of the population in every country.
I do find it disturbing that a healthy portion of the UK population is so ignorant of the EU.
Here are results of a survey to tested the knowledge of the EU.
The UK performed the worst or second worst.
I got 2 out of the 3 questions right. I missed the 3rd question.
Also, the data indicates that being informed or uninformed about the EU does not change the positive or negative view of the EU. Meaning, you could be informed and think negatively of the EU. The researchers were hoping to find that a negative view of the EU was just ignorance but it turns out it is not. The researchers cautioned that the data may not be strong enough to make this conclusion (because they wish to hold out to prove that ignorance = bias against the EU).
Coming from a EU country there is a long continuity of people disliking the EU and voting against more involvement of the EU in country policy for all sort of diverging reasons. Many of those worries are legitimate and could come from any informed person but many of the negative perceptions about the EU assumes we go on with essentially a single (current) international policy.
Validating the EU as it is now is one thing. Validating what it could be is barely ever reported on polls at all, because it's political fiction. So even among people who welcome the EU as an idea might just bash it on practice.
Originally posted by Bentley
Coming from a EU country there is a long continuity of people disliking the EU and voting against more involvement of the EU in country policy for all sort of diverging reasons. Many of those worries are legitimate and could come from any informed person but many of the negative perceptions about the EU assumes we go on with essentially a single (current) international policy.Validating the EU as it is now is one thing. Validating what it could be is barely ever reported on polls at all, because it's political fiction. So even among people who welcome the EU as an idea might just bash it on practice.
^Take your nuanced views out of here, we don't take kindly to them 'round these here parts. Brexit was nothing but racism and you're also a racist if you can't even admit that.
Originally posted by dadudemonwhat happened was unpleasant rhetoric and downright lies were used by some very rich people who bankrolled vote leave. They were not challenged and a large number of the people who voted, mainly not very educated voted along these "popularist" lines. Gimping the younger generation in regards to working in Europe, easy travel etc. The basis for a lot of this was we would not get immigrants, the immigrants people were worried about were non EU immigrants, leaving the EU actually may increase the influx of non EU immigrants, particularly from commonwealth countries in Sub Saharan Africa.
Perhaps we are living in our own bubble on KMC and take for granted that we are all fairly informed. We mock each other for being stupid, dumb, ignorant, biased, etc.But what we do not acknowledge is that we are a bunch of nerds posting on a dying forum. It's not that we are better than the rest of the population. We find these things interesting: hence the "nerd" label. But most people don't know about this stuff. They don't care. We should remember that what we find important is not important to a huge portion of the population in every country.
I do find it disturbing that a healthy portion of the UK population is so ignorant of the EU.
Here are results of a survey to tested the knowledge of the EU.
The UK performed the worst or second worst.
I got 2 out of the 3 questions right. I missed the 3rd question.
Also, the data indicates that being informed or uninformed about the EU does not change the positive or negative view of the EU. Meaning, you could be informed and think negatively of the EU. The researchers were hoping to find that a negative view of the EU was just ignorance but it turns out it is not. The researchers cautioned that the data may not be strong enough to make this conclusion (because they wish to hold out to prove that ignorance = bias against the EU).
Originally posted by Putinbot1
what happened was unpleasant rhetoric and downright lies were used by some very rich people who bankrolled vote leave. They were not challenged and a large number of the people who voted, mainly not very educated voted along these "popularist" lines. Gimping the younger generation in regards to working in Europe, easy travel etc. The basis for a lot of this was we would not get immigrants, the immigrants people were worried about were non EU immigrants, leaving the EU actually may increase the influx of non EU immigrants, particularly from commonwealth countries in Sub Saharan Africa.
So it was only the leave side that lied? The other side never did? Never misrepresented anything?
Originally posted by Surturwe'll project fear as the right called it seems to be coming true economically somewhat late. But happening, whereas the money for the NHS and the implied reduction in non European immigrants are both outright lies, intended to trigger the racist and vulnerable.
So it was only the leave side that lied? The other side never did? Never misrepresented anything?