So let's talk Brexit

Originally posted by Putinbot1
we'll project fear as the right called it seems to be coming true economically somewhat late. But happening, whereas the money for the NHS and the implied reduction in non European immigrants are both outright lies, intended to trigger the racist and vulnerable.

So yes, both sides did, understood.

Your country should never have a referendum again. It lacks the maturity to do so and commit to the result. In the end it comes off like those in power are just f*cking with the citizens and there sure as shit doesn't seem to be a side that can truthfully claim "we didn't try to manipulate the vulnerable".

Originally posted by Surtur
So yes, both sides did, understood.

Your country should never have a referendum again. It lacks the maturity to do so and commit to the result. In the end it comes off like those in power are just f*cking with the citizens.

https://www.google.com.ng/amp/s/www.newstatesman.com/politics/brexit/2018/07/now-we-know-extent-vote-leave-s-lies-we-must-hold-second-referendum%3famp

You can't really equalise the two

Originally posted by Putinbot1
https://www.google.com.ng/amp/s/www.newstatesman.com/politics/brexit/2018/07/now-we-know-extent-vote-leave-s-lies-we-must-hold-second-referendum%3famp

You can't really equalise the two

Ah so the logic is "the side that won lied so it's tainted"?

Good thing we don't apply that logic in America cuz every single election would have been tainted. All of them. Every single presidential election would require a do over.

That's not the logic at all. Your reading comprehension is terrible Surtur. It's like you imagine what the article is saying. And you're doing your triggered multiple post thing, you know the one you do when triggered.
https://www.google.com.ng/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jul/17/vote-leave-broke-electoral-law-and-british-democracy-is-shaken&ved=2ahUKEwjKmKrKipjfAhUKRBoKHXejBfAQFjABegQICRAB&usg=AOvVaw1Pq9cI_X-PTWrNnKoEwIrO&ampcf=1p

Referendum isn't binding under law.

Accepting donations from a foreign power to influence an election most certainly is covered by law.

Originally posted by Putinbot1
That's not the logic at all. Your reading comprehension is terrible Surtur. It's like you imagine what the article is saying. And you're doing your triggered multiple post thing, you know the one you do when triggered.
https://www.google.com.ng/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jul/17/vote-leave-broke-electoral-law-and-british-democracy-is-shaken&ved=2ahUKEwjKmKrKipjfAhUKRBoKHXejBfAQFjABegQICRAB&usg=AOvVaw1Pq9cI_X-PTWrNnKoEwIrO&ampcf=1p

Are you whining about campaign finance violations now? Sounds like it. I sure as f*ck hope you have more than that.

Originally posted by cdtm
Referendum isn't binding under law.

Accepting donations from a foreign power to influence an election most certainly is covered by law.

Originally posted by Bentley
Coming from a EU country there is a long continuity of people disliking the EU and voting against more involvement of the EU in country policy for all sort of diverging reasons. Many of those worries are legitimate and could come from any informed person but many of the negative perceptions about the EU assumes we go on with essentially a single (current) international policy.

Validating the EU as it is now is one thing. Validating what it could be is barely ever reported on polls at all, because it's political fiction. So even among people who welcome the EU as an idea might just bash it on practice.

Very nice input into the convo. I really liked this post. This is the kind of stuff I want to read from people that are actually in the EU - perspectives that we Americans just don't know about.

Originally posted by Putinbot1
what happened was unpleasant rhetoric and downright lies were used by some very rich people who bankrolled vote leave. They were not challenged and a large number of the people who voted, mainly not very educated voted along these "popularist" lines. Gimping the younger generation in regards to working in Europe, easy travel etc. The basis for a lot of this was we would not get immigrants, the immigrants people were worried about were non EU immigrants, leaving the EU actually may increase the influx of non EU immigrants, particularly from commonwealth countries in Sub Saharan Africa.

Please do not mistake my question as me being disingenuous. My coming up question reads like I am being a smartass but I am asking in sincerity. I know I can be a bastard but I want to make it absolutely clear that my question is genuine:

If the consensus by the economists is that leaving the EU would have a slight net-negative on the UK economy, why am I consistently reading from anti-Brexit people, like you, that the elite rich used their power and money to influence people to vote in favor of Brexit? I see a contradiction in that logic. Surely the rich-elite would be aware of this contradiction? (That a Brexit would slightly harm them by conservative estimates and largely hurt them by some of the more liberal estimates).

Bridge the gap for me: I see a contradiction in your logic about how Brexit happened.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Very nice input into the convo. I really liked this post. This is the kind of stuff I want to read from people that are actually in the EU - perspectives that we Americans just don't know about.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Please do not mistake my question as me being disingenuous. My coming up question reads like I am being a smartass but I am asking in sincerity. I know I can be a bastard but I want to make it absolutely clear that my question is genuine:

If the consensus by the economists is that leaving the EU would have a slight net-negative on the UK economy, why am I consistently reading from anti-Brexit people, like you, that the elite rich used their power and money to influence people to vote in favor of Brexit? I see a contradiction in that logic. Surely the rich-elite would be aware of this contradiction? (That a Brexit would slightly harm them by conservative estimates and largely hurt them by some of the more liberal estimates).

Bridge the gap for me: I see a contradiction in your logic about how Brexit happened.

No, it's much more complicated than you describe it. These are the main donors

https://www.pulse.ng/bi/politics/politics-the-21-biggest-donors-to-the-brexit-campaign-id6646673.html

For the everyday person, it was painted in lies as stemming non-European migration and more money for the NHS.

What these guys want is far worse, they want control given back to the most wealthy in the UK and a deregulation.

Brexit will work for some companies at the detriment of the people. It will also destroy the lower middle class. Lower Middle class has a different meaning in the UK to the US to avoid confusion.

May is facing no confidence vote. Could lead to her being ousted.

https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/brexit-referendum/prime-minister-theresa-may-faces-no-confidence-vote-amid-brexit-n946861

Originally posted by BackFire
May is facing no confidence vote. Could lead to her being ousted.

https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/brexit-referendum/prime-minister-theresa-may-faces-no-confidence-vote-amid-brexit-n946861

Some ways Brexit is damaging the UK as of now.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-12-12/brexit-adds-to-u-k-credit-market-stress-as-oxbridge-bonds-soar

https://www.forbes.com/sites/randybrown/2018/12/10/brexit-the-abysmal-reality-of-becoming-poorer/

May survived her no confidence vote.

Yeah, she did. The majority of conservatives support her.

Originally posted by Putinbot1
No, it's much more complicated than you describe it. These are the main donors

https://www.pulse.ng/bi/politics/politics-the-21-biggest-donors-to-the-brexit-campaign-id6646673.html

For the everyday person, it was painted in lies as stemming non-European migration and more money for the NHS.

What these guys want is far worse, they want control given back to the most wealthy in the UK and a deregulation.

Brexit will work for some companies at the detriment of the people. It will also destroy the lower middle class. Lower Middle class has a different meaning in the UK to the US to avoid confusion.

I'm getting mixed messages from you.

You indicated right at the beginning that it is more complicated than the way I phrased my question (that rich people are funding Brexit even though Brexit will have a small negative impact on the economy using conservative estimates). But then you link me to a site that runs down the top 21 donors who are all super rich people.

So either all these super rich people are idiots who not only wasted money on funding Brexit marketing and strategy initiatives, but they also invested in an economic downturn which will directly affect their wealth.

It still doesn't add up, dude.

I don't see how deregulation will help a sick economy. Are they delusional? Or are there other lies at play that we still have not uncovered?

Here are the Pros I keep reading about from pro-Brexiters:

1. Less immigrants who are ruining the country and culture. Safer due to less terrorists because they cannot get into the UK so easily.
2. Less regulations by getting out of the overly regulated EU.
3. No EU membership fees (lol).
4. More sovereignty. Being a bigger player at the diplomatic table.

I do have a solution to this Brexit issue, however. I think the US, Canada, Switzerland, the UK, Mexico, and Norway should form their own union.

We should call the Union: Amazing Nations of Upmost Supremacy or ANUS for short.

And the ruling body for ANUS should be called the Bureaucratic Organization of Opulent Barristers or BOOBs for short.

These ANUS BOOBs will be people that each nation elects to participate in the ANUS. And there will be two governing provisions to manage the ANUS from corruption:

If the BOOBs become corrupt, the people can vote to remove part of the ANUS.

If the BOOBs become complete idiots, the people can also vote to completely wipe out the ANUS. No more BOOBs in the ANUS so a surprise election will have to be held to put more BOOBs in the ANUS until the ANUS is completely full of all the BOOBs needed to keep the ANUS humming.

I think my thoughts on BOOBs and ANUS are fairly spot on. I really like how I have the BOOBs operating very tightly within the ANUS. I can't think of a more tightly run ANUS, if I'm to be honest.

Originally posted by dadudemon
I'm getting mixed messages from you.

You indicated right at the beginning that it is more complicated than the way I phrased my question (that rich people are funding Brexit even though Brexit will have a small negative impact on the economy using conservative estimates). But then you link me to a site that runs down the top 21 donors who are all super rich people.

So either all these super rich people are idiots who not only wasted money on funding Brexit marketing and strategy initiatives, but they also invested in an economic downturn which will directly affect their wealth.

It still doesn't add up, dude.

I don't see how deregulation will help a sick economy. Are they delusional? Or are there other lies at play that we still have not uncovered?

Here are the Pros I keep reading about from pro-Brexiters:

1. Less immigrants who are ruining the country and culture. Safer due to less terrorists because they cannot get into the UK so easily.
2. Less regulations by getting out of the overly regulated EU.
3. No EU membership fees (lol).
4. More sovereignty. Being a bigger player at the diplomatic table.

I do have a solution to this Brexit issue, however. I think the US, Canada, Switzerland, the UK, Mexico, and Norway should form their own union.

We should call the Union: Amazing Nations of Upmost Supremacy or ANUS for short.

And the ruling body for ANUS should be called the Bureaucratic Organization of Opulent Barristers or BOOBs for short.

These ANUS BOOBs will be people that each nation elects to participate in the ANUS. And there will be two governing provisions to manage the ANUS from corruption:

If the BOOBs become corrupt, the people can vote to remove part of the ANUS.

If the BOOBs become complete idiots, the people can also vote to completely wipe out the ANUS. No more BOOBs in the ANUS so a surprise election will have to be held to put more BOOBs in the ANUS until the ANUS is completely full of all the BOOBs needed to keep the ANUS humming.

I think my thoughts on BOOBs and ANUS are fairly spot on. I really like how I have the BOOBs operating very tightly within the ANUS. I can't think of a more tightly run ANUS, if I'm to be honest.

Originally posted by Putinbot1
there's a lot more to it, you have to have an understanding of the British class system. Donor Harris for example got given schools because he supported the Tories first election around. What these people want is an impact on the fabric of the society. They want a return to an older class system. They want the UK before the second world war. As unrealistic and crazy as that is.

I can't believe you've done this.

Originally posted by dadudemon
I can't believe you've done this.