The only reason we have to believe that MUI and Jiren are below Beerus is the quote stating Goku is approaching the level of the Gods, which imho is obviously within the context of the movie and not referring to MUI, especially when we KNOW factually that the likes of Jiren are on par with or surpassing the level of the Gods. People also believe the quote is referring to MUI because it says Vegeta is far behind and “desperately trying to catch up,” but that was a poor translation. The accurate translation more or less states that Vegeta is right behind Goku, not vastly behind, which to me is the usual comparison of their abilities and not a comparison involving MUI, given we now know that
Spoiler:
MUI isn’t even in the movie, and the quote is in the context of the movie.
Beerus claims 129 MUI is possibly stronger than him, and that’s the same MUI that got thoroughly overpowered by LB Jiren, who was subsequently overpowered by a further amped MUI. Furthermore,
Spoiler:
Goku never states Broly is the strongest enemy he’s ever faced AFAIK, he just comments that Broly is far stronger than himself, and probably stronger than Lord Beerus.
It’s honestly next to impossible to prove with any certainty that Broly is above Jiren or MUI, so I think both of them together can handle Broly.
No concrete evidence at this point suggests that MUI Goku is > Beerus. The only legitimate/canon evidence we have suggests the exact opposite, in fact.
And the Director's quote must have been referring to MUI, given that SSB Goku and SSB Vegeta have been most consistently portrayed as equals(in both the manga and anime.) MUI is really the only thing that puts Goku above Vegeta these days.
That said, I think MUI is really close to Beerus, but I think Beerus would ultimately nudge it out.
Originally posted by Galan007
Both Goku and Vegeta just used their regular SSB forms. No KK or SSBE.Given Toriyama's direct involvement with this film, I think it was geared more toward manga continuity, tbh... That would certainly explain why those forms weren't used here.
The advanced forms existed in manga, though. Vegeta had that funky super blue he pulled out against Toppo, and bull rushed Jiren with. And Goku technically achieved a Super Kaioken like form, according to Whis.
Vegeta's boost wasn't a different transformation in the manga, though -- it was just a zenkai'd/powered-up SSB. And Goku briefly tried to stack KK on top of SSB in the manga, but quickly realized it was all but worthless in a battle because of the physical toll it took on his body.
Obviously this is a sharp contrast to the...'additions' Toei made in the anime, wherein Goku routinely stacked KKx20 on top of SSB, and Vegeta actually gained a completely new transformation in SSBE(of which made him equal to KKx20.) /shrug
Originally posted by cdtmI mean, if Goku had infinite stamina(ala #17), then he'd ultimately win through attrition, I guess. But in a standard battle it's been proven in both the anime and manga that if you're at least close to the MUI-user's level, you can overcome its 'untouchability' factor.
As far as Broly's power goes, could he beat a fully mastered MUI that never tired out?Trunks was stronger then Perfect Cell. Enough to one shot him, probably. He never had chance of actually tagging him.
USSJ Trunks was only stronger than an immensely suppressed Perfect Cell, but that's neither here nor there. Trunks couldn't hit Cell because he was bulky and slow -- Broly's speed is not hindered in any way.
Originally posted by Inedian
Team wins.
I'm undecided, honestly.
Like Galan said, it really depends on how you take the comments made in the movie. If he's stronger then Beerus (Or any lifeform alive, like Freeza said), then that means MUI loses.
Have we ever even seen a full power, going all out Beerus?
In the manga, when the God of Destruction tourney happened, maybe. But does that apply to this movie, and to Goku's comment?
Originally posted by cdtmAs mentioned, I think this movie is more rooted in manga canon -- from Vegeta using SSG(and Goku not being the least bit surprised by it), to the lack of KK and SSBE, etc. That said, the *only* time we've seen Beerus really cut loose was in the manga, when he outfought all of the other GoDs simultaneously -- and Goku witnessed that battle, so he would have it as a benchmark by which to compare Broly.
Like Galan said, it really depends on how you take the comments made in the movie. If he's stronger then Beerus (Or any lifeform alive, like Freeza said), then that means MUI loses.Have we ever even seen a full power, going all out Beerus?
In the manga, when the God of Destruction tourney happened, maybe. But does that apply to this movie, and to Goku's comment?
Anywho, if we take Freeza's statement from the light novel literally, then it puts Broly above FP Jiren at the very least. Don't know for sure if Freeza can sense Godly ki, but he could definitely sense Jiren's ki:
https://i.imgur.com/PMve4F9.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/nvYPWXx.jpg
...And remember, Freeza was referring to normal SSJ Broly's power when he claimed him the strongest in the novel(ie. this was before Broly had attained his vastly more powerful FPSSJ state.) Couple that with all of the other promo material citing Broly as the most powerful being they had ever fought(along with established DB-logic, which dictates that each new major enemy must be the most powerful), and it makes sense that FPSSJ Broly was beyond the likes of Beerus, MUI Goku, and Jiren.
Not saying it is 100% irrefutable, just that it shouldn't be a surprise for people to think Broly was operating at such a level. /shrug
