Comic Book Questions & Discussion

Started by carver91,926 pages

So Jane Thor matching Odin is a terrible showing for Odin, Thor and Hyperion hurting Beyonders makes them/Beyonders trash but a powerless Superman beating up a supposedly skyfather is a high showjng for Superman? KMC at its finest.

^ I don't think anybody is seriously comparing a shade of Olgrun with Odin or the Beyonders.

Also, Odin was not at full power. He'd expressed that numerous times during Aarons arc. Thor/Hype were massacred.

Originally posted by ODG
It's continuity porn. And if it's Al Ewing doing it, I'm all for it.

Also, the Celestials from past cosmos' incarnations didn't just create the Beyonders to have power to rival them, they gave them power to outright defeat the Celestials. The Beyonders were the Celestials' own fail-safe because they recognized the danger they themselves posed. That's a rather elegant and imaginative retcon to resolve Fraction's take on the Celestials during Defenders vol.4, Hickman's take on the Celestials during Time Runs Out and Ewing's take on the Celestials from The Ultimates 2.


Retcons like these are useful because it makes it easier to make sense of the mess that's the Marvel cosmos and contest head-canon models that cherry-pick and abuse abandoned concepts.

It wasn't too long ago I saw the "Cube Beings have infinie power, and Celestials have even greater infinite powers," argument with the scan from Fantastic Four Annual #26 attatched.

Now we know that the Adaptoids, Cube Beings, Beyonders are just as powerful as the Celestials, and as of Time Runs Out could wipe out all of Marvel.

In fantastic four annual 26 Kubik speculates that the celestials come from a realm beyond the multiverse and that it is possibly the same realm as the Beyonders. Now that it is known that the Beyonders are creations of the Celestials, I guess the speculation that Kubik made 30 years ago starts to make sense and both Celestials and Beyonders come from the second cosmos and the second cosmos or the remnants of the second cosmos is what was previously known as the Beyond realm? https://imgur.com/I8Uumao

Originally posted by alekj019
In fantastic four annual 26 Kubik speculates that the celestials come from a realm beyond the multiverse and that it is possibly the same realm as the Beyonders. Now that it is known that the Beyonders are creations of the Celestials, I guess the speculation that Kubik made 30 years ago starts to make sense and both Celestials and Beyonders come from the second cosmos and the second cosmos or the remnants of the second cosmos is what was previously known as the Beyond realm?

The Celestials were created in the First Cosmos which they also destroyed. The Celestials created the Omega Men in the Second Cosmos. But with the exception of the Beyonder who was introduced to the universe through Molecule Man's use of power I don't think that the Omega Men were ever supposed to be unaware of their origins.

Either way the Riddle of the Celestials chapter adds anything to the mythos that hasn't been contradicted, so there's no point in referencing it.

Just trying to connect some things, Ewing seems to be versed in the old stories, so the beyond realm is actually the second cosmos...it seems that unlike in the past, now Beyonder implied that there are realms where even he is not powerful enough and that the white hot room is a higher dimension.

Originally posted by alekj019
Just trying to connect some things, Ewing seems to be versed in the old stories, so the beyond realm is actually the second cosmos

You can certainly draw connections between the two but they're not necessarily that useful. The references to older stories are slightly altered and represented in a new context that's not avalible in the older books.

Originally posted by alekj019
it seems that unlike in the past, now Beyonder implied that there are realms where even he is not powerful enough and that the white hot room is a higher dimension.

It might be the case that the Phoenix has greater powers, or more likely that the Beyonder will have a limited access to his powers in the White Hot Room, but don't know that yet.

But it's important to note that the Omega Men we saw used finite incarnations of themselves. That's why Loki could mess around with them through his narrative manipulation and why the Blue Marvel could blow a hole in the head of one of them with anti-matter.

Late to the party, but Defenders: Beyond #2 was pretty good. It was interesting to see Ewing go full-meta at times, but he pulled it off pretty well, imo. 👆

Originally posted by Astner
It seems like Ewing wants to make sense of the Marvel cosmos. The Beyonder is a Beyonder again, the Beyonders are retconned into creations of the Celestials that with powers rivaling the Celestial's, and in the next issue we'll explore the Phoenix's White Hot Room.
The Beyonder was still a "Beyonder" under Hickman as well -- but he was just a "child unit" back in SW(which is mentioned in this issue.) He's apparently all grown up now, though still clearly unstable to some extent(the other Beyonders even refer to him as "The Broken One".) But the revelation that the Celestials actually created the Beyonders as fail-safes is... Interesting?

The WHR evidently sits "beyond the beyond", so I won't at all be surprised if it is revealed that the PF > Beyonders.

^ Somewhere, Galacticstorm waits for his moment to shine…

GS has been waiting his entire life for a reveal of that magnitude. 👆

Originally posted by Galan007
GS has been waiting his entire life for a reveal of that magnitude. 👆

GS will swoop in this forum on wings of fire. "Jgg" only funny if you've been here at least 16 years.

😂

Originally posted by carver9
So Jane Thor matching Odin is a terrible showing for Odin, Thor and Hyperion hurting Beyonders makes them/Beyonders trash but a powerless Superman beating up a supposedly skyfather is a high showjng for Superman? KMC at its finest.
you’re right it should be a low showing for Superman.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
😂
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
😂 Awwww i see a case of hurt pride has lead to an anti Phoenix campaign:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=331574&pagenumber=10#post4978814

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f43/t359297.html

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f43/t357575.html

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f43/t364387.html

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f43/t357586.html

Grow up Whirly your manner belies your age 😱 😂

For someone who doesnt take this forum seriously you're certainly going to a lot of effort to change forum opinion 😮

Anyone who reads Xmen will know exactly what happened there and i also provided the explanation of featured events in the thread which Whirly took that image. But coincidentally i see that post has been left out. I wonder why? 😕 😮 😆

😂 GS is a top bloke mind. I am very fond of him.

Originally posted by carver9
So Jane Thor matching Odin is a terrible showing for Odin, Thor and Hyperion hurting Beyonders makes them/Beyonders trash but a powerless Superman beating up a supposedly skyfather is a high showjng for Superman? KMC at its finest.

Are you seriously complaining about a double standard you yourself have utilized on a ****ton of occasions?

Of course you are. Why am I not surprised.

if phoenix end up being established as more powerful then the beyonders, it might even be enough to bring mr master out of his exile.

doubt it though lol.

@Diesldude

It seems that Superman would be revealed to have an upgrade in the following issue, based on the official press.

In the aftermath of Superman’s epic Warworld Revolution, the Man of Steel is back on Earth and stronger than he’s ever been!

https://aiptcomics.com/2022/06/14/superman-crossover-action-comics-kal-el/

So it is possible it will turn out to be a "Superman Up, UP, And Away" version that Superman finds his powers were improved when they returned

This entire run made Mongul look like a low tier meta.

Lol

I don't think there's a single person that takes carver serious here