Originally posted by -Pr-
Sometimes I forget how little you know me. Steve was my favourite Avenger for years.
Nobody will ever accuse you of not knowing your team books, Pr.
But, while those definitely do matter, they are not everything:
Originally posted by -Pr-
But if you ask me how many arcs of Cap's solo books I've read? The answer is not many.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
.... because of the Northern Ireland thing?
What? No. What the ****.
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Nobody will ever accuse you of not knowing your team books, Pr.But, while those definitely do matter, they are not everything:
I said for years. Which were my younger years. The old cartoons, colouring books, and he's by far my favourite MCU character. But yes, I always tended to read Avengers books in terms of group stuff rather than solo stuff (Hulk is the exception).
Hell, I even own a replica shield.
Originally posted by ODGAssuming Carey's series is still even relevant to current DC, sure... But it wasn't much of a consideration in Watters' series, so I doubt it's something that other members of the writing staff give too many shits about, unfortunately.
But even taking your interpretation, if the Great Darkness was an aspect of Lucifer, then Lucifer's flight from Creation should have resulted in all of the Great Darkness' machinations being discontinued. But clearly with these retcons, the Great Darkness' machinations continued.I didn't even think about that. But that leads me more to believe that the Great Darkness is not an aspect of Lucifer but the other way around. To be frank, I'd rather Lucifer be separated completely. Lucifer was one of the Presence's first creations. He shouldn't be relegated to an aspect of the Great Darkness.
You could be absolutely correct there- Lucifer may not end up embodying GEB at all, but rather, one of his many different aspects(in the same vein as Trigon and UpsideDown Man.) Basically my initial opinion that Lucifer=GEB primarily hinges on Watters being directly involved in the issue(because in his series, they were one in the same)... But I'll be the first to admit that running with that kind of logic(without any sort of proper confirmation) is dubious, at best.
I fully agree that Lucifer works better as a "standalone", though -- it suits his character far better that way. Though with how current canon has set things in motion, it seems like pretty much all big-bads since COIE-AM have been relegated to aspects of the GEB. Hell, even Manhattan was stated to have been corrupted by the GEB, which is why he started manipulating the DC continuum in the first place(and Jon wasn't even a "villain" in the classic/typical sense.) So perhaps Lucifer was just among the unfortunate characters who were retconned by the GEB's current existence/status -- caught in the proverbial "crossfire", as it were. Time will tell, I suppose. /shrug
Originally posted by Galan007Watters did not reinvent the wheel. Mazikeen and the rest of Carey's supporting cast showed up in v3 that Watters wrote.
Assuming Carey's series is still even relevant to current DC, sure... But it wasn't much of a consideration in Watters' series, so I doubt it's something that other members of the writing staff give too many shits about, unfortunately.You could be absolutely correct there- Lucifer may not end up embodying GEB at all, but rather, one of his many different aspects(in the same vein as Trigon and UpsideDown Man.) Basically my initial opinion that Lucifer=GEB primarily hinges on Watters being directly involved in the issue(because in his series, they were one in the same)... But I'll be the first to admit that running with that kind of logic(without any sort of proper confirmation) is dubious, at best.
I fully agree that Lucifer works better as a "standalone", though -- it suits his character far better that way. Though with how current canon has set things in motion, it seems like pretty much all big-bads since COIE-AM have been relegated to aspects of the GEB. Hell, even Manhattan was stated to have been corrupted by the GEB, which is why he started manipulating the DC continuum in the first place(and Jon wasn't even a "villain" in the classic/typical sense.) So perhaps Lucifer was just among the unfortunate characters who were retconned by the GEB's current existence/status -- caught in the proverbial "crossfire", as it were. Time will tell, I suppose. /shrug
That scene suggested the opposite. But we can agree to disagree.
Even if Dark Crisis ends without any mention of Lucifer Morningstar, I'm of the inclination to keep him separate from the Great Darkness despite the one-off cameo. That cameo goes against too much canon.
Originally posted by ODGSure, some of the supporting cast was still there, but I'm just saying that Watters' series didn't really adhere to the overlying plot/theme of Carey's series at all -- he went his own route with the character. Although Watters seemingly did try to consolidate all the various iterations of Lucifer by introducing the avatar concept, but I digress... Doesn't really matter.
Watters did not reinvent the wheel. Mazikeen and the rest of Carey's supporting cast showed up in v3 that Watters wrote.That scene suggested the opposite. But we can agree to disagree.
Even if Dark Crisis ends without any mention of Lucifer Morningstar, I'm of the inclination to keep him separate from the Great Darkness despite the one-off cameo. That cameo goes against too much canon.
Fair enough. 👆
Yeah, perhaps we'll have a better understanding of "true form" GEB when the story has wrapped-up(for better or for worse)... Or maybe not. F*ck if I know. /shrug
Originally posted by Galan007
Sure, some of the supporting cast was still there, but I'm just saying that Watters' series didn't really adhere to the overlying plot/theme of Carey's series at all -- he went his own route with the character. Although Watters seemingly did try to consolidate all the various iterations of Lucifer by introducing the avatar concept, but I digress... Doesn't really matter.Fair enough. 👆
Yeah, perhaps we'll have a better understanding of "true form" GEB when the story has wrapped-up(for better or for worse)... Or maybe not. F*ck if I know. /shrug
Just to be clear on something:
Wasn't Swamp Thing basically ruined, with the old character's personality or some such being "killed off" and replaced by some sort of primal avatar or something?
Just wondering if almost all of the classic Verrigo/Moore/Gaiman/Carey days have become unrecognizable at this point.
I guess to be fair, Alan Moore essentially made a career out of giving past writers the middle finger..
Originally posted by cdtmThere's been a lot of criticism but Holly Black & Richard Kadrey's v2 literally picked up where Carey's Lucifer left off with a cosmic procedural murder mystery. I hated the art but if there were a different artist I have to admit, it wasn't a bad story.
Just to be clear on something:Wasn't Swamp Thing basically ruined, with the old character's personality or some such being "killed off" and replaced by some sort of primal avatar or something?
Just wondering if almost all of the classic Verrigo/Moore/Gaiman/Carey days have become unrecognizable at this point.
I guess to be fair, Alan Moore essentially made a career out of giving past writers the middle finger..
Dan Watter's follow-up in v3 was magnificent in my opinion, so long as you don't care about forum power hierarchies. Definitely one of the best runs I've read in the last decade.
Originally posted by ODG
There's been a lot of criticism but Holly Black & Richard Kadrey's v2 literally picked up where Carey's Lucifer left off with a cosmic procedural murder mystery. I hated the art but if there were a different artist I have to admit, it wasn't a bad story.Dan Watter's follow-up in v3 was magnificent in my opinion, so long as you don't care about forum power hierarchies. Definitely one of the best runs I've read in the last decade.
I have the week off, think you convinced me to check it out once I finish up Transformers Hearts of Steel (Good if you're a fan, it's Transformers in the industrial era America. Bumblebee meets Mark Twain and John Henry.)
so they really let this ugly dude play adam warlock 🙁
Originally posted by -Pr-
iirc it used to be about a year, but that might have been changed recently.
Yoda had him on that crash course. Did they ever have his midichlorian count? Because it kinda poops all over the 'we must get them young and fresh' thing, if they can just grab an 18 year old, give him some training in a backwater swamp planet with no resources and he comes out dodging blaster fire casually.
Sidenote: Luke looks like he's about to invite those kids into his T-16 to shoot some womp rats, if you know what I mean.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Yoda had him on that crash course. Did they ever have his midichlorian count? Because it kinda poops all over the 'we must get them young and fresh' thing, if they can just grab an 18 year old, give him some training in a backwater swamp planet with no resources and he comes out dodging blaster fire casually.Sidenote: Luke looks like he's about to invite those kids into his T-16 to shoot some womp rats, if you know what I mean.
To be fair, Luke is a prodigy, so you can't apply the same standard to him as you would any old youngling.