Comic Book Questions & Discussion

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
This is from Ultimates #4, the most impressive

Blue Marvel casually blitzed a whole team of troubleshooters, with psi-force manipulation.

Just one of the members was able to perceive and stop Monica at lightspeed in mid blitz with psi-force

What I see is BM rushing past the Troubleshooters and pushing Rodstvow through a portal.

You also seem to be of the opinion that every member of the Troubleshooters has perceptions/reactions equal to those of Tensen(the guy who mindphucked Monica there.) You have any proof to support that? Been a while since I read Ultimates, so maybe I'm forgetting something. 🙂

batman mentioned there are 50 mages walking the earth right now that can unthink all of reality with a thought

dc is getting ridiculous

Originally posted by Galan007
Interesting.

What I see is BM rushing past the Troubleshooters and pushing Rodstvow through a portal.

You also seem to be of the opinion that every member of the Troubleshooters has perceptions/reactions equal to those of Tensen(the guy who mindphucked Monica there.) You have any proof to support that? Been a while since I read Ultimates, so maybe I'm forgetting something. 🙂

Rodstow, who defeated Blue Marvel.

Originally posted by Galan007
Interesting.

What I see is BM rushing past the Troubleshooters and pushing Rodstvow through a portal.

You also seem to be of the opinion that every member of the Troubleshooters has perceptions/reactions equal to those of Tensen(the guy who mindphucked Monica there.) You have any proof to support that? Been a while since I read Ultimates, so maybe I'm forgetting something. 🙂

the one he blitzed was the fastest member of the team

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
the one he blitzed was the fastest member of the team

You have the scans handy?

Originally posted by Galan007
I know Rodstvow was the most powerful member of the team(in his 'true' form, at least), but I don't remember him being called the fastest member.

You have the scans handy?

Bruh Galan read the comic, I gave you the issue number.

Cool. So if you've read the issue, you should be able to post scans of him being referred to as the fastest member of the team... Or at least tell me what page it's stated on.

That's all I'm asking for. It's a simple request. 🙂

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
Bruh Galan read the comic, I gave you the issue number.

You've got a real attitude problem.

Originally posted by Galan007
I know Rodstvow was the most powerful member of the team(in his 'true' form, at least), but I don't remember him being called the fastest member.

You have the scans handy?

He was also only at his most powerful in his dimension.

Stop nit picking

..........droolio

Originally posted by -K-M-
Stop nit picking

Make me.

Originally posted by -K-M-
Again your making up your own rules. We have rules already assigned for Hulk. Hulks various personalities as noted by Banner are different incarnations of Hulk. Which as you know mindset is a big component for him drawing into his rage and some can draw into more. Look at Iron Man all his suits are not created equal. Most of the time his gadgets don’t always cross over to the “new suit”

Doomsday in the DOS storyline and the annual are the same. There is no additional circumstances to seperate them. They even had a minor retcon in rebirth making that showing in DOS more impressive for Superman and Doomsday. Do we ignore that too? It’s directly related to the DOS story

I'm in no way making the claim that Doomsday has the same stipulation in the clarification thread that Hulk does, I was simply showing how Saint's logic could be flipped. He wasn't falling back on the fact that Hulk's limited by the rules and DD isn't, he was expressing the logic he uses to support Hulk's limitation. If he had just said "I don't care about logic, Hulk's specifically f*cked by the rules and DD isn't and that's that" I wouldn't have bothered responding because he'd be 100% correct and the parallels between Hulk and DD would be irrelevant.

Also, just because no specific ruling on DOS DD has been made the way it has for Hulk, that doesn't mean such a thing has been barred. It's ok to talk about whether or not such things would be appropriate unless the mods have to you to stop or something.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Did DoS DD get outperformed by Annual DD?

I was referring specifically to energy attacks.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
So the madder the Hulk gets, the stronger he gets.

WWH was the angriest Hulk of all time.

IOW, direct corollary means that he should be the strongest Hulk of all time.

But I bet I can show feats from Hulks PRIOR to WWH (obv not touching WBH lol) that are better.

DoS Doomsday? He was weakened from having been imprisoned for 150,000 years without sunlight, and having been defeated by the Radiant. Yet, DoS DD just walked through a combined JLA energy attack whilst laughing.

Originally posted by darthgoober
I'm not making up rules. In general I like to give people the benifit of a doubt and assume that people who use logic based upon certain principals will use the same logic when similar principals are in effect. Ergo, a person who thinks a thread specifying "WWH" should mean ONLY things that happened within that particular arc should be used even if per canon other showings are relevant should also think that "DOS DD" should mean ONLY things that happened within that particular arc should be used even if per canon other showings are relevant.

I'm in no way making the claim that Doomsday has the same stipulation in the clarification thread that Hulk does, I was simply showing how Saint's logic could be flipped. He wasn't falling back on the fact that Hulk's limited by the rules and DD isn't, he was expressing the logic he uses to support Hulk's limitation. If he had just said "I don't care about logic, Hulk's specifically f*cked by the rules and DD isn't and that's that" I wouldn't have bothered responding because he'd be 100% correct and the parallels between Hulk and DD would be irrelevant.

Also, just because no specific ruling on DOS DD has been made the way it has for Hulk, that doesn't mean such a thing has been barred. It's ok to talk about whether or not such things would be appropriate unless the mods have to you to stop or something.

I personally think so. Hell if he didn't it seems like him taking the JL's attack would have been what you brought up instead of the Guardian attack. I mean sure people can disagree, but even if they do I still don't see how they could consider the annual relevant for DOS DD since...

But he evolves from what killed him last time. So it's pertinent as it affects his later performances - as we see with the RAdiant.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
But he evolves from what killed him last time. So it's pertinent as it affects his later performances - as we see with the RAdiant.

Originally posted by darthgoober
And Hulk in WWH was stronger and more powerful than ever, per canon.

But wasn't, as evidenced with his performance against his cell structure.

DD ripped Radiant apart.

Statements are fine. Performances are better.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
But wasn't, as evidenced with his performance against his cell structure.

DD ripped Radiant apart.

Statements are fine. Performances are better.

And Doomsday was weaker based off him killing radiant but failing to do the same against Booster Gold who didnt have his shields up AND Guy Gardner who was shieldless. I do agree, performance is the key.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
But wasn't, as evidenced with his performance against his cell structure.

DD ripped Radiant apart.

Statements are fine. Performances are better.

On another note Carver, you might actually take some solace from the development. The ruling is about the thread stipulation "WWH", not the actual persona. The full Hulk Ruling says...

"Hulk: "Calm Hulk" is a misnomer. In the case of almost any Hulk, he starts off VS battles at (like most characters) his average level. So, say... Savage Hulk doesn't start off class 85, and people can't argue things like "Maybe if they knock him out before he can get too strong, they can win". As far as his limit goes, yes, while there's the whole "madder = stronger" aspect of the character, that doesn't mean you get to apply a no-limits fallacy to it. His feats are more than enough ammunition to use to win debates.

Hulk's incarnations: If a Hulk is stated as amped, then he's amped. WWH-arc Hulk can, more often than not, accomplish something Savage did, WBH can accomplish something WWH-arc Hulk did, and so on. From now on, people using "WWH" as a term to describe Hulk, will have the Hulk in their thread restricted to using feats from the arc. WWH is not the character description. Green Scar, WBH, or HOTM would be more fitting."

... so the forum rules now actually support the notion that WWH, WBH, and HOTM are all the same guy and more powerful than Savage and the rest. So in any thread about "Green Scar" pretty much every Hulk feat you really want is up for grabs.

Originally posted by darthgoober
And I understand your logic there, but you're using the whole cellular structure thing to support the omission of EVERYTHING outside of WWH, while demanding a specific contradiction to toss out a specific feat from the annual. That's like saying that strength feats outside of WWH are still valid because they have nothing to do with the cellular thing. ALL feats from outside the WWH arc are excluded, ergo if DD under preformed in ANY capacity in DOS the same logic would dictate that ALL feats from the annual are irrelevant.

Ok, so would you say WWH's feats are better than Savage's (or indeed, any Hulk barring WBH where he was not holding back)?

Originally posted by darthgoober
On another note Carver, you might actually take some solace from the development. The ruling is about the thread stipulation "WWH", not the actual persona. The full Hulk Ruling says...

"Hulk: "Calm Hulk" is a misnomer. In the case of almost any Hulk, he starts off VS battles at (like most characters) his average level. So, say... Savage Hulk doesn't start off class 85, and people can't argue things like "Maybe if they knock him out before he can get too strong, they can win". As far as his limit goes, yes, while there's the whole "madder = stronger" aspect of the character, that doesn't mean you get to apply a no-limits fallacy to it. His feats are more than enough ammunition to use to win debates.

Hulk's incarnations: If a Hulk is stated as amped, then he's amped. WWH-arc Hulk can, more often than not, accomplish something Savage did, WBH can accomplish something WWH-arc Hulk did, and so on. From now on, people using "WWH" as a term to describe Hulk, will have the Hulk in their thread restricted to using feats from the arc. WWH is not the character description. Green Scar, WBH, or HOTM would be more fitting."

... so the forum rules now actually support the notion that WWH, WBH, and HOTM are all the same guy and more powerful than Savage and the rest. So in any thread about "Green Scar" pretty much every Hulk feat you really want is up for grabs.

Pretty much. It's only when WWH is being used that I bring this up. Carv just never bothered learning the rules lol.