Comic Book Questions & Discussion

Originally posted by darthgoober
I'm not making up rules. In general I like to give people the benifit of a doubt and assume that people who use logic based upon certain principals will use the same logic when similar principals are in effect. Ergo, a person who thinks a thread specifying "WWH" should mean ONLY things that happened within that particular arc should be used even if per canon other showings are relevant should also think that "DOS DD" should mean ONLY things that happened within that particular arc should be used even if per canon other showings are relevant.

I'm in no way making the claim that Doomsday has the same stipulation in the clarification thread that Hulk does, I was simply showing how Saint's logic could be flipped. He wasn't falling back on the fact that Hulk's limited by the rules and DD isn't, he was expressing the logic he uses to support Hulk's limitation. If he had just said "I don't care about logic, Hulk's specifically f*cked by the rules and DD isn't and that's that" I wouldn't have bothered responding because he'd be 100% correct and the parallels between Hulk and DD would be irrelevant.

Also, just because no specific ruling on DOS DD has been made the way it has for Hulk, that doesn't mean such a thing has been barred. It's ok to talk about whether or not such things would be appropriate unless the mods have to you to stop or something.

From page one of the same thread....

Originally posted by carver9
I thought we only use fts from DOS. Kinda like how when WWH is used, we only use showings from that chapter?

Originally posted by Galan007
Hmm... Now I'm curious how you've tried to twist this in the past, because I thought it was generally accepted that any feats a character preformed prior to the arc in question should still be valid for that character, barring special circumstances or w/e(such as explicit amps/powerups and whatnot)... Especially in Doomsday's case where he just keeps getting more and more powerful via evolution. So the feats from his Annual should still be valid for DoS DD because they took place thousands of years prior to DoS, but the feats he preformed later on during H/P would not.

...But if you tried to pull some of your silly Hulk hijinks (Hulkjinks?) previously, I could see people calling shenanigans and telling you to stfu. /shrug

So yes that is a ruling from a mod. Alsobthe original thread maker also made a clear statement the annual applies

Originally posted by MrMind
Seriously don't go off topic with the versions of character, DD annual feats included. Thor has axe and hammers

Again there is no clear distinction doomsday is different so does not apply the same as the hulk situation

WWH is more powerful than Savage... he even states this along with Pak. Savage Hulk or any Hulk before WWH, their fts should be usable.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Ok, so would you say WWH's feats are better than Savage's (or indeed, any Hulk barring WBH where he was not holding back)?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Pretty much. It's only when WWH is being used that I bring this up. Carv just never bothered learning the rules lol.

Originally posted by -K-M-
From page one of the same thread....

So yes that is a ruling from a mod. Alsobthe original thread maker also made a clear statement the annual applies

Again there is no clear distinction doomsday is different so does not apply the same as the hulk situation

That's not a ruling from a mod, it was him seeking clarification for something that seemed to conflict with the status quo as he was aware of it. He said he was curious and asked questions to continue the tangent, he didn't make a call and then shut the convo down. Mods debate too, not everything they say about a character is an official KMC ruling.

Originally posted by darthgoober
That's not a ruling from a mod, it was him seeking clarification for something that seemed to conflict with the status quo as he was aware of it. He said he was curious and asked questions to continue the tangent, he didn't make a call and then shut the convo down. Mods debate too, not everything they say about a character is an official KMC ruling.

Key words there...status quo. He was basically mocking carver for having that opinion as it should be common sense which I agree with. He even said the annual applies to that thread.

Basically if a thread starter wants to pick specific issues to only debate they can say that in the opening post. Because now you are trying to complicate the matter forcing people to go off topic what can and can’t apply to debate. Which the thread starter agreed the annual was allowed as well making the argument pointless

Not really sure why this is a debate

Originally posted by -K-M-
Key words there...status quo. He was basically mocking carver for having that opinion as it should be common sense which I agree with. He even said the annual applies to that thread.

Basically if a thread starter wants to pick specific issues to only debate they can say that in the opening post. Because now you are trying to complicate the matter forcing people to go off topic what can and can’t apply to debate. Which the thread starter agreed the annual was allowed as well making the argument pointless

Not really sure why this is a debate

I never meant to force anyone to go off topic, Hell when I realized the discussion was going to continue to stretch out I'm the one who moved the discussion here so as to not derail the thread. You're right when you say that the thread started specified what he meant in that thread, but that doesn't mean that the topic of whether other characters should be held to the same standards as Hulk is irrelevant. The stuff I'm saying isn't contingent upon the content of that one particular thread after all.

@KM

Are you implying that it is fair WWH is limited to just those books whereas other characters like DOS Doomsday fts can branch out to other stories? Think about that for a second.

Doomsday can’t get all his feats if a selected era was picked. If DOS doomsday was picked them H/P feats do not apply. Can all his feats be applied to current doomsday? Sure. As His powers are adaption and evolution and he gets stronger in every fight. That’s his Schlick. Most characters do not have that benefit. that wouldn’t apply to such as iron man as he loses features when he upgrades and Hulk as various personalities are different entities

If a poster says WWH or WBH is allowed then it’s fair game. if your arguing Hulk will go WWH or WBK in every fight then that would be wrong and isn’t supported by comics either

It wouldn't be wrong though since we've seen even Savage Hulk go World Breaker.

Originally posted by -K-M-
Doomsday can’t get all his feats if a selected era was picked. If DOS doomsday was picked them H/P feats do not apply. Can all his feats be applied to current doomsday? Sure. As His powers are adaption and evolution and he gets stronger in every fight. That’s his Schlick. Most characters do not have that benefit. that wouldn’t apply to such as iron man as he loses features when he upgrades and Hulk as various personalities are different entities

If a poster says WWH or WBH is allowed then it’s fair game. if your arguing Hulk will go WWH or WBK in every fight then that would be wrong and isn’t supported by comics either

Originally posted by carver9
It wouldn't be wrong though since we've seen even Savage Hulk go World Breaker.

On a regular basis to warrant to say he goes in a vs thread? No. Or I would argue Sasquatch goes tanaraq in every thread. He’s done it more times then hulk has gone WWH or WBK but I don’t think that’s a viable tactic

Originally posted by darthgoober
The rules does actually say that it applies to Hulk because it acknowledges that WWH, WBH, and HOTM Hulk are all the same persona and more powerful than all the previous Hulks. It's just that despite it being relevant, the title "WWH" excludes anything out of said arc.

Their different personas and people were arguing which carver is kind of doing now that hulk will go WWH in every battle. That’s not the case. Rebirth Superman was also recently barred too

Originally posted by -K-M-
On a regular basis to warrant to say he goes in a vs thread? No. Or I would argue Sasquatch goes tanaraq in every thread. He’s done it more times then hulk has gone WWH or WBK but I don’t think that’s a viable tactic

Their different personas and people were arguing which carver is kind of doing now that hulk will go WWH in every battle. That’s not the case. Rebirth Superman was also recently barred too

Originally posted by darthgoober
Yeah they're different personas... but Greenscar is flat out stronger than Savage.

Yes he is. But immortal hulk is stronger then most hulks but his durability is much lower. Thankfully he has an amazing healing factor but things that savage hulk wouldn’t be phased by completely “kills” immortal hulk

What makes you say Immortal Hulk has lower durability than Savage, out of curiosity?

Originally posted by -K-M-
Yes he is. But immortal hulk is stronger then most hulks but his durability is much lower. Thankfully he has an amazing healing factor but things that savage hulk wouldn’t be phased by completely “kills” immortal hulk

And again, the ruling specifically states that Greenscar should be considered stronger and more powerful than Savage and the rest. I mean we can totally discuss whether or not you agree with the ruling if you want, I'm just pointing out that we're not really discussing DD anymore or whether carver or myself like the fact that WWH is limited to that specific arc, we're now talking about you disagreeing with the ruling that Greenscar is stronger than Savage and can use Savage's feats.

Originally posted by NemeBro
What makes you say Immortal Hulk has lower durability than Savage, out of curiosity?

Hotspot blew his stomach open, bushwacker (daredevil villain) nearly blew his head off with 1000 cal bullets, red absorbing Man drained him where one punch basically shrunk his arm, red harpy opened up his chest and ate his heart (granted after abomination dissolved his limbs but his chest durability should have been in tact), sunlight reverts him back to human form, etc

Not sure how savage would do against abomination acid spit. Probably same outcome

Originally posted by darthgoober
Immortal Hulk is post Green Scar, differences between him and the other incarnations indicates nothing about the versions that came before.

And again, the ruling specifically states that Greenscar should be considered stronger and more powerful than Savage and the rest. I mean we can totally discuss whether or not you agree with the ruling if you want, I'm just pointing out that we're not really discussing DD anymore or whether carver or myself like the fact that WWH is limited to that specific arc, we're now talking about you disagreeing with the ruling that Greenscar is stronger than Savage and can use Savage's feats.

Again I really don’t understand why this is a debate. The actual rule is

“Hulk: from now on, people using "WWH" as a term to describe Hulk, will have the Hulk in their thread restricted to using feats from the arc. WWH is not the character description. Green Scar, WBH, or HOTM would be more fitting.”

Different arcs because again different motivation ie different incarnation. So separated as I said.

Problem with hulk he is not always the same level of angry.

Originally posted by -K-M-
Again I really don’t understand why this is a debate. The actual rule is

“Hulk: from now on, people using "WWH" as a term to describe Hulk, will have the Hulk in their thread restricted to using feats from the arc. WWH is not the character description. Green Scar, WBH, or HOTM would be more fitting.”

Different arcs because again different motivation ie different incarnation. So separated as I said.

Problem with hulk he is not always the same level of angry.

Hulk's incarnations: If a Hulk is stated as amped, then he's amped. WWH-arc Hulk can, more often than not, accomplish something Savage did, WBH can accomplish something WWH-arc Hulk did, and so on. From now on, people using "WWH" as a term to describe Hulk, will have the Hulk in their thread restricted to using feats from the arc. WWH is not the character description. Green Scar, WBH, or HOTM would be more fitting."

Originally posted by darthgoober
I know what the actual rule, I posted the entire actual ruling on the matter on the previous page including the part you omitted...

Hulk's incarnations:[b] If a Hulk is stated as amped, then he's amped. WWH-arc Hulk can, more often than not, accomplish something Savage did, WBH can accomplish something WWH-arc Hulk did, and so on. From now on, people using "WWH" as a term to describe Hulk, will have the Hulk in their thread restricted to using feats from the arc. WWH is not the character description. Green Scar, WBH, or HOTM would be more fitting." [/B]

Exactly so different incarnations are restricted. He is not always at those levels. Immortal hulk is a unique version. But as I said he is stronger then savage hulk, but his durability isn’t as good and has the light weakness. That’s unique for Hulk (other then original appearance hulk). With the case of doomsday he is the same. He only gets more powerful through adaption. That’s his power. While hulk gets stronger the madder he gets. The motivation and mindset of hulks are different in each incarnation. But doomsday is changed on a base form and that’s his constant. Not like Hulk who even his personality can change. People here have tried to use all the highs of the different incarnations and ignore their low showings

It’s like the HOM Wanda thread which I think you also argued picking certain issues to debate rather then the whole story. You can’t do that. It’s a retcon, but that’s the canon story. Again if a thread maker says in the opening post just refer to the HOM main series then that’s fair game

You can reply to my post but I’ll leavr it to that and perhaps we put It to a mod ruling after all

Originally posted by -K-M-
Exactly so different incarnations are restricted. He is not always at those levels. Immortal hulk is a unique version. But as I said he is stronger then savage hulk, but his durability isn’t as good and has the light weakness. That’s unique for Hulk (other then original appearance hulk). With the case of doomsday he is the same. He only gets more powerful through adaption. That’s his power. While hulk gets stronger the madder he gets. The motivation and mindset of hulks are different in each incarnation. But doomsday is changed on a base form and that’s his constant. Not like Hulk who even his personality can change. People here have tried to use all the highs of the different incarnations and ignore their low showings

It’s like the HOM Wanda thread which I think you also argued picking certain issues to debate rather then the whole story. You can’t do that. It’s a retcon, but that’s the canon story. Again if a thread maker says in the opening post just refer to the HOM main series then that’s fair game

You can reply to my post but I’ll leavr it to that and perhaps we put It to a mod ruling after all

As for the Wanda thing, again a specific version was mentioned. Rectons don't affect specific versions IMO when the recton itself is the reason that the version in question isn't considered to be the true character. It's like jumping into an argument about Pre Recton Beyonder trying to use the recton as proof.