Originally posted by Raptor22
@nibedicusLet me put it this way. I was raised to respect my elders. If u replaced those kids with my brothers and i and when we were thay age and my parents were there and that old man with his drum came slowly up to us, they would have told us to get out of his way. If we didnt we, would have gotten a slap upside the head. If we proceeded to not move but surround him when he tried to pass thru in an obvious mob/intimidation tactic, then stare the old man down, we would have gotten our asses whooped by our pops right then and there and rightfully so.
If it wasnt our parents but basicaly any coach or teacher ive ever had it would have gone basically the same as with my parents minus the immediate whoopin but to be followed by a whoopin when word got home.
But in reality none of that would have happened because even though i was/am, and my brothers were/are ass holes, even at 15 we werent big enough of ones to not move out of the way of and be respectful to an elderly man, even if he had possibly been a little obnoxious with his drumming.
I think a lot of the narratives you posted were proven false. They didn’t actively surround him (the NA guy placed himself in the middle of them), he wasn’t trying to pass thru (his intention was to put himself in the middle of them) and they were responding to his actions and not the reverse. Assuming the above is correct, can you still say that the kid was doing something deserving of being called a racist/*******/vile/etc?
Originally posted by dadudemon
You're just trolling at this point.Guys, it's time to stop responding to him. He's clearly just trolling. He was looking for a reason to hate anyone with a MAGA hat and was wrong. So he's doubling down on being a moron. But, really, it's just trolling, now.
Hey, Bashar. You were wrong. Be an adult and admit you were wrong.
What really surprises me are Rob and PB, I honestly thought they had more integrity than that.
Originally posted by Silent MasterHe walked up to them, they parted, then proceeded to encompass him which resulted in him being surrounded by them. Either way it doesnt really change anything.
One big flaw in your argument is that the native American elder wasn't trying to get past them, even he admitted that he was confronting them. Nor did they surround him, he walked into the middle of their group.
Bbbbut the elderly man harmlessly beating his tiny drum was confronting me
Dad/coach/teacher/local cop- and u think that matters? Hes an elderly man beating a tiny drum, ur 15, pleanty old enough to know better.
Originally posted by Raptor22
He walked up to them, they parted, then proceeded to encompass him which resulted in him being surrounded by them. Either way it doesnt really change anything.Bbbbut the elderly man harmlessly beating his tiny drum was confronting me
Dad/coach/teacher/local cop- and u think that matters? Hes an elderly man beating a tiny drum, ur 15, pleanty old enough to know better.
I watched the video again. The students don't surround him. It was the followers, Native American Marchers, and bystanders. The students stay where they are fairly well, too. I did not see the students ever surround him.
Time stamps:
1:12:10 through 1:14:32
What I did see was after he approached beating his drum and stopped for the first time, Philips stepped forward closer and closer 3 more times until he was in the young man's face which is where we got the iconic video.
I appreciate you trying to engage honestly on this topic and not being a douche. Which is why I took the time to respond to you and actually give you timestamps.
Originally posted by Raptor22
He walked up to them, they parted, then proceeded to encompass him which resulted in him being surrounded by them. Either way it doesnt really change anything.Bbbbut the elderly man harmlessly beating his tiny drum was confronting me
Dad/coach/teacher/local cop- and u think that matters? Hes an elderly man beating a tiny drum, ur 15, pleanty old enough to know better.
Well, if you walk into the middle of a group of ppl isn’t it likely you would get surrounded by them? I mean I don’t get your reasoning here. And how does it not change anything?
The guy is an adult, he should know beterr-er. In fact, don’t you think his positioning was intentional?
Originally posted by Raptor22
He walked up to them, they parted, then proceeded to encompass him which resulted in him being surrounded by them. Either way it doesnt really change anything.Bbbbut the elderly man harmlessly beating his tiny drum was confronting me
Dad/coach/teacher/local cop- and u think that matters? Hes an elderly man beating a tiny drum, ur 15, pleanty old enough to know better.
Actually the people behind and to the side of him are members of his own group and other bystanders. Check-out ddm's post for time stamps. Just be honest and say he walked into the middle of their group. That is a far more accurate description of what happened.
He was confronting them, even he admits that. by the way, since when was beating a drum and chanting directly into someone's face not considered rude and aggressive?
You know who else is old enough to know better, the elderly man beating a drum and chanting in a kid's face.
@nib
"I think a lot of the narratives you posted were proven false. They didn’t actively surround him (the NA guy placed himself in the middle of them), he wasn’t trying to pass thru (his intention was to put himself in the middle of them) and they were responding to his actions and not the reverse. Assuming the above is correct, can you still say that the kid was doing something deserving of being called a racist/*******/vile/etc?"
My point is hes an elderly man whose worst offense up to that point was possibly being a bit obnoxious. (His statements after, some of which appear to be untrue, is why i also classified him as an ass hole). Then u had the group of kids being obviously rude and disrespectful to him making them ass holes as well. Obviously none of us can peer into the hearts and minds of another but if u dont think that they were trying to be intimidating then i guess we'll have to agree to disagree on that one.
My turn to prove a narritive false by answering ur last question.
No i cant still say that the kid was doing something deserving of being called a racist/*******/vile/etc. Because i never said hes a racist or vile. I simply said that he along with his friends, and the black group, and the old guy were all ass holes in that story. And i stand behind that 100%.
Do u think they werent acting liked ass holes? If that was u and ur parents were there would they tell u to get the hell away from him or allow u to continue? What would u say to ur kid (if u have any) if it was them instead of smirkey an u were there? Would u be proud or embarassed and disappointed?
Im not asking those questions to be a dick, but i respect u as a poster and im curious as to ur opinion.
Originally posted by Silent Masternot sure if this is directed at me. But if it is
Again, he wasn't trying to continue or pass through, even he has stated that his intention was to confront them. Where in the world do you get the idea that if the kids stepped aside he would have continued on and left them alone?
again it doesnt matter to me either way. Hes an elderly man beating a tiny drum. Have some respect for your elders. Get the hell out of his way, take a few steps back and dont act like a group of ass holes.
It is not wrong to stand your ground when someone is trying to instigate something with you. Personally, I feel that the kid acted with great restraint. Probably because he didn’t wanna look bad as he knows cameras were all over the place.
I never said you called him vile/racist. But you did call him and *******. So you really didn’t disprove a narrative here. I added vile/racist as to also ask if you feel that he deserve the treatment he was getting and if you agree/disagree with the posters who did call him those names.
Like I said, given the cirumstances, they acted with restraint. If an old dude was acting like an ******* (your words) around me, I’d have just walked away. But I also can respect standing against someone trying to intidmate you or instigate something. But that is beside the point. The fault lies almost always primarily on the instigator unless the instigated reacts negatively. The instigated did not react at all and an *******-looking face is not really enough.
Edit. Also, to add: Question, do you have kids yourself? I happen to have a daughter. As a parent, we always need to establish a balance with what we teach our kids. To teach to determine when to give way and when to stand your ground. We’re not always perfect, and we cannot expect our kids to guess perfectly when to do so every time.
Edit2. I mean, think about this: Us, as adults, even with the gift of hindsight, can’t even 100% agree what the appropriate action was in this scenario. Think about that for a second.
Originally posted by Raptor22
not sure if this is directed at me. But if it isagain it doesnt matter to me either way. Hes an elderly man beating a tiny drum. Have some respect for your elders. Get the hell out of his way, take a few steps back and dont act like a group of ass holes.
They are minors, where is his respect towards them? Again, his stated intention was to confront them, if they had backed up he would have just taken a few more steps forward. What did you want them to do, run away?
Originally posted by dadudemonjust saw this post.
I watched the video again. The students don't surround him. It was the followers, Native American Marchers, and bystanders. The students stay where they are fairly well, too. I did not see the students ever surround him.Time stamps:
1:12:10 through 1:14:32
What I did see was after he approached beating his drum and stopped for the first time, Philips stepped forward closer and closer 3 more times until he was in the young man's face which is where we got the iconic video.
I appreciate you trying to engage honestly on this topic and not being a douche. Which is why I took the time to respond to you and actually give you timestamps.
This is what i saw.
Old dude with small group walking between both groups holding his drum up beating it.
Old dude takes a turn towards group of kids still playing drum
Kids start acting douchey making stupid faces, dancing like ass holes and being generally disrespectful.
Old guy continues foward still playing drum with a bit of douchiness added
kids move aside a bit slowly continuing their own douchery.
Old guy and group start moving thru slowly, kids proceed to fill in around them.
Tbh They look surrounded right before it cuts back to the black guys. If u say it was bystandes thats cool. Ill take ur word for it. Im not about to track down a copy of their year book and start comparing faces to argue the point.
If u want to give them the benefit of doubt and say they werent trying to be intimidating and were just acting silly and goofy thats fine too. I saw it a bit different.
My whole point. Whether or not the old dude acted mildly inappropriately, hes an elderly man. Have some respect for your elders. Just get the hell out of his way cut the stupid dancing shit out and stop acting like an ass.