2020 Presidential Election Discussion

Started by dadudemon523 pages
Originally posted by Badabing
Can Bernie supporters please give me your reasons you support him? I just don't get it given his policies. Tell me what you like about them. And I'm not here for a debate, just general insight.

I'm not a Bernie supporter but here are my positions on his platform, all major parts:

Originally posted by dadudemon
You're all over the place. Let's make it easier to focus the topics:

Here are Bernie's and my positions:

[b]1. Free college across the board?
-Nope. I think making state schools free for those who make less than $150k a year should be okay. Maybe $175k, depending on the city. State schools are already free for some and in some ways - just extend those programs to 85% of the rest of Americans. Bernie's plan is too bold and too costly. Some others had ideas on how to save more money on this stuff, as well. One idea was to require performance metrics by institutions to be met: job placement percentages, graduation rates, and post-graduation income levels. If their degree programs do not allow their graduates to make a certain amount of money or get jobs to an acceptable level, they lose their federal funding.

2. Medicare for all?
-Yes. Almost just like Bernie proposes. It will save us trillions. However, there are better ways to go about implementing this such as requiring a small copay for the most commonly used services. As QuickTrip discovered, making medical services for free under their insurance policy encouraged abuse of their insurance policy. To combat this, they required $5 copays. Utilization of the insurance greatly reduced making their incredibly generous insurance policy now operate in the black. Seriously, a simple policy like that drove down unnecessary utilization - that's something Bernie can introduce to save massive amounts of money. Something about humans having to pay even just a little discourages them from going to the doctor for tiny things like bruises or minor scrapes.

3. Modern infrastructure investments (part of the Green New Deal)
-Yes to the infrastructure stuff but no to much of the Green New Deal. This is one of the greatest ways we can invest in our economy - modernization and repairing our infrastructure. This is capitalism at its finest and is the basics of basics of what the founding fathers intended after they re-wrote the Articles of Confederation and gave us the US Constitution. Build the infrastructure that best suits the American needs to facilitate prosperity and efficiency. The dividends are the companies ability to have faster and greater reach while lowering costs. It allows for the American worker to more safely and cheaply travel. Traveling Americans are spending Americans are working Americans.

4. Conservation of lands, expanding protected lands, killing energy infrastructure (this all gamut)
-Not a good idea. We have enough regulation in this as is. We don't need more conservation lands or more energy regulations.

5. Immigration Reform
-Yes, almost all of his suggestions in this area except the DACA stuff. Read it: it's not bad.

6. Workplace Policies
-Almost no to all of these. No to expanding unions and their powers, yes to the regulation for firing employees only for "just causes", no to punishing companies for paying low wages, and no to cancelling "right to work laws" that many states have voted on and passed (that's an abuse of the Reserved Powers as outlined in the US Constitution in the 10th Amendment).

7. Housing for All:
-No, plain and simple. This is stupid. The just cause eviction stuff is good. No to the gentrification crap he suggests. No to his idea about how to end homelessness (his Medicare for All would address much of this by providing care to the mentally ill which constitutes a great majority of the homeless). And no to his idea about building 2020s Hoovervilles (building houses for Americans).

8. Expanding Social Security.
-No. Dismantle it. Get rid of social security. Require that every worker invest in their own retirement of their choosing but obviously regulate that.

9. Better care for elderly:
-Yes, covered under Medicare for All.

10. Fix, Improve, Update the Veteran's Programs
-No. Get rid of ALL of it. Kill the whole program. Instead, they use Medicare for All just like all the other Americans. Once discharged, they shouldn't be using a special veterans medical care program. They should get to use whatever doctor, medical facilities, and hospitals they want - just like every other American. Use the "workers" from the VA program to help beef up the Medicare for All program when it is expanded to all Americans - they are working in very similar fields and will have a much easier transition than most. Also, use some of the insurance company workers who will lose their jobs to work in the Medicare for All program, too.

11. Prison reform:
- Yes to almost all of these. Seriously, almost all of the items in this list. No more for profit prisons, improving public defender stuff, end mass incarceration (we imprison and jail people far too much in the US), get rid of three strike laws (thank for profit prison lobbyists for this), get rid of mandatory minimums, expand alternatives to detention, end the War on Drugs, legalize Marijuana and expunge all records related to this, decriminalize addictions and treat them as medical conditions, refocus military police into community police who also have programs for the homeless; create a prisoner bill of rights to ensure minimum level of humane treatment, medical care, rehabilitation, and education opportunities are present (prison should be used to separate bad people from the population so they can be rehabilitated to reenter society as productive members - that means greatly changing the idea that prison is all about punishing and Americans will hate that); and reform the police with oversight and penalties for abuse.

12. Medical Debt and Credit
-Yes to all of these. But I say implement a discharge period of medical debt. It may take a while when we move to a Medicare for All.

13. Invest in primary and secondary schools:
-Mostly yes to these items but I would alter some of these. Yes to providing free meals to kids (taking care of our children, veterans, and elderly is the most important thing we should be doing). No to the gun violence prevention laws - the last thing we need is another low prohibiting guns at schools - they already exist and they will do nothing. Yes to massive pay raises for teachers. they should get a minimum of $60k a year with locality pay adjustments (standard of living) and biyearly inflation adjustments to pay. We should increase the requirements for earning a teaching certificate, of course. No to his ideas about defunding charter schools but yes to adding in a requirement of quality for all schools (charter or otherwise). If the charter schools do not break any laws and they meet the minimum standards, leave them alone and keep funding them.

14. Extreme Wealth Tax
-No. Dammit, no. Stop this stupid shit, Bernie. Fair Tax Plan. That's all you need.

15. Fair Banking
-Cap loan and credit card rates to 15% - yes, this was the same idea I had, including the same percentage. And they should do it just like God intended in the bible - only 7 year terms for usury.

After 7 years, it's all principal or you discharge the debt. 🙂 Teeheeeee!

No to his idea of postal office banks run by the government. lol, wtf?

16. Funding, Investing More, into Minority and Historically Black Colleges
-No to literally everything in this. It's just more racist policies by another Democrat. Regulations for all, across the board, with no special treatment for anyone. [/B]

Originally posted by dadudemon
I'm not a Bernie supporter but here are my positions on his platform, all major parts:

DooDooMore ideas! 😈

the DNC is too worried about maintaining their limited power base
any truly progressive ideas have to be watered down and meet the approval of committees and bureaucrats
Bernie never had a chance and the dems deserve to get annihilated come November

Originally posted by carthage
the DNC is too worried about maintaining their limited power base
any truly progressive ideas have to be watered down and meet the approval of committees and bureaucrats
Bernie never had a chance and the dems deserve to get annihilated come November

At this point, they really do.

f'ing called it!

lol there is absolutely nothing "truly progressive" about radical left-wing ideas. They're actually regressive, tbh.

Oh, and the dems are gonna lose in a landslide in November regardless of who they put up against Trump and it's still my honest opinion that Sanders would've lost even harder to Trump than Biden will. And regardless of who the dem nominee is, the dems will still 100% deserve their ass whoopin'.

Are americans simply retarded?

Nah, just the raging leftists are. And I'm almost certain you have them in your country as well so it's not just a USA problem.

Oh god, don't even get me started about Corbyn.

Yeah, I already know about his dumb ass so you don't need to elaborate.

Originally posted by eThneoLgrRnae
Oh, and the dems are gonna lose in a landslide in November regardless of who they put up against Trump and it's still my honest opinion that Sanders would've lost even harder to Trump than Biden will.

Maybe. But Biden is all but guaranteed to lose. He's basically Hillary 2.0 but even more bland. Bernie is a very different type of candidate so there is some ambiguity to the final result.

Bernie's major support come from 118-20 year olds. The most unreliable demographic.

Originally posted by dadudemon
I'm not a Bernie supporter but here are my positions on his platform, all major parts:
Thanks for the reply. While I don't 100% agree your reasoning appears thought out. And you don't seem to be a slave to either side.

I know there are some factors that make it a different contest, but compared to Clinton's turnout against Sanders in 2016 Biden really didn't do very well...

YouTube video

But of course that's not the narrative that's being spun.

And wtf is this with people waiting 2, 3, 4+ hours to vote? That's fu#ked. And fu#king fishy.

I know there are some factors that make it a different contest, but compared to Clinton's turnout against Sanders in 2016 Biden really didn't do very well..

Yes but a few things, Biden was on his last leg and couldn't run ads so super Tuesday was Biden's freebie win day. Now that he has momentum and money Bernie's strategy is going to have to change since his main demographic (young voters) didn't poney up for him like the older voters for Biden.

No matter how anyone analyzes Super Tuesday there is only one undeniable fact Biden won more delegates and Bernie is on defense and catchup.

I heard/saw a few Bernie ads last night (I'm in missouri) and his ads were TERRIBLE, his mssging was he is going after billioniares..........and no one REALLY cares unless they know what that means to them (ie m4a etc.) It was complete SHIT mssging, seriously he should fire whoever made those ads.

He did have a good interview (imo) with Maddow last night, he just needs to take off his kid gloves and start to punch at the machine that doesn't want him to win now (Biden/democrats.)

Originally posted by snowdragon
He did have a good interview (imo) with Maddow last night, he just needs to take off his kid gloves and start to punch at the machine that doesn't want him to win now (Biden/democrats.)

Yeah, but he can't win either way with that. If he starts playing more dirty and mean, then he'll just get smeared as the "angry old Jew" and play into that narrative.

There's really probably NO winning strategy with all the cards and obstacles stacked against him by the establishment. All we can do is keep trying.

But seriously... the voting wait times...

Black and Latino voters were hit hardest by long lines in the Texas Democratic primary

Originally posted by Badabing
Thanks for the reply. While I don't 100% agree your reasoning appears thought out. And you don't seem to be a slave to either side.

If you have the time, let me know where I've gone wrong. I'm open to altering my positions when better ideas or interpretations of ideas come along.

There are some things I'm not too keen about and I haven't heard or read any good rebuttals. Like his weird extreme wealth tax: still prefer Fair Tax.

Hm... closing polling stations? That's fu#king rigging.

This guys makes some good points, but if Bernie got more combative toward the DNC he would just be demonized as the "angry old Jew," so he really can't win. But I do tend to agree that he should be more vocal about Biden being a Republican in disguise and show his awful record. He's not a real Liberal. But there will be more debates right? Hopefully Bernie will mop the floor with that phony fu#ker.

YouTube video

Warren is out, now it's just Bernie and Biden. I feel bad for uncle joe who has to write his name on his hand to remember it now though.

Originally posted by Patient_Leech
Hm... closing polling stations? That's fu#king rigging.

This guys makes some good points, but if Bernie got more combative toward the DNC he would just be demonized as the "angry old Jew," so he really can't win. But I do tend to agree that he should be more vocal about Biden being a Republican in disguise and show his awful record. He's not a real Liberal. But there will be more debates right? Hopefully Bernie will mop the floor with that phony fu#ker.

YouTube video

First one minute of the vid and I already like this guy.

It's possible to enjoy Crowder, Tim Pool, Contrapoints, and Dore. Among others. There are a few other personalities that I do enjoy watching.

Anyway, YES, someone said it that has any sort of clout: we have a one-party state.

Also, I agree with his point about Sanders' campaign not seemingly being run well. His ads...kind of suck at times. His ground game kind of sucks at times, too. He needs a stronger organizer. If I agreed with more of his policies, I'd quit my day job and help organize his campaign a bit better. I've done more with less funding in my career. He has more than enough money to do better than this.