2020 Presidential Election Discussion

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
So if they cannot get single-payer, they will turn down universal coverage with a public option, in favor of the private system they have under Trump? Real galaxy brain thinking there.

What? Biden is against Medicare for all. Hes not even in favour of free Medicare for those with Covid. Likely Because hes in the pockets of the Insurance companies.

And hes never been in favour of increasing minimum wage. Doesnt seem to care less about your unemployment crisi.

Hes not for the Palestinian cause and hes for keeping Troops in Iraq (no matter what he claims, as action speak louder than words).

Hes simply not Left. And I really dont see much of a difference between him and Trump aside from rhetoric and number of women who have accused them of sexual assault.

Oh and the other big difference is Trump isnt suffering from cognitive decline.

So dont talk down to me as if people have to choose the lesser or two evils or it means they are simply dumb.

Bernie and Biden are completely different. And Bernies supporters are smart enough not to fall for Trump 2.0 as the lesser of 2 evils nonsense.

Oh and its not Universal Coverage. His aim is to cover 97%. Which means 10million still wont have access. And thats his AIM.

And as long as healthcare is linked to employment and you have soaring levels of unemployment, your healthcare options are pretty piss poor under either man.

Originally posted by Bashar Teg
*more americans. closing in on twice that number

but the total of vietnamese soldiers and civilizations killed is estimated to be over 3 million

What?! How?!

I personally think Bernie supporters are better off if Biden wins. But I would not go so far to say they should (or even have to) support Biden or vote for him.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
And Bernie supporters shouldnt be supporting Biden. Hes against everything they stand for like Medicare for all.

But this isnt going to be the landslide you think. An historically accurate Election model is showing almost the opposite. A landslide for Biden. Same model was showing a Trump victory before the Pandemic.

But I agree when it comes to debates it will be easy for Trump to rip apart a guy with clear cognitive decline.

Not that I care either way because it seems to me like both your choices are really lousy. And this 2 party choice (neither of which seem very left to me) backed by massive media outlets on both sides doesnt seem very democratic at all.

This is a good post. 👆

I could be wrong. But from what I'm seeing, it looks like a 2012 election but in favor of Trump + some extra Berniebro voters going to Trump. I don't put much credence in the Biden vs. Trump polls after the primaries are done. The polls before the primaries finished (right before we saw final concessions) seemed to have been more accurate in predictions in 2012 and 2016. Then something weird happens and we always see the Dem winning vs. the GOP candidate (I swear, we are always seeing the Bradley Effect, here).

And I also agree: both choices are pure shite.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
What? Biden is against Medicare for all. Hes not even in favour of free Medicare for those with Covid. Likely Because hes in the pockets of the Insurance companies.

And hes never been in favour of increasing minimum wage. Doesnt seem to care less about your unemployment crisi.

Hes not for the Palestinian cause and hes for keeping Troops in Iraq (no matter what he claims, as action speak louder than words).

Hes simply not Left. And I really dont see much of a difference between him and Trump aside from rhetoric and number of women who have accused them of sexual assault.

Oh and the other big difference is Trump isnt suffering from cognitive decline.

So dont talk down to me as if people have to choose the lesser or two evils or it means they are simply dumb.

Bernie and Biden are completely different. And Bernies supporters are smart enough not to fall for Trump 2.0 as the lesser of 2 evils nonsense.

Adam_Poe means that the BernieBros fighting against Biden (and the significant fraction that will vote for Trump) are going to cause Trump to win and Trump is not pro-Bernie-Style MFA. Trump has expressed support for a UHC but not a single-payer like Bernie said. I don't support a single payer option as well. I support a UHC via Medicare for All. But Trump is not delivering.

Originally posted by dadudemon

😆 😆 😆

I would rather him be a racist than rapist.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
What? Biden is against Medicare for all. Hes not even in favour of free Medicare for those with Covid. Likely Because hes in the pockets of the Insurance companies.

And hes never been in favour of increasing minimum wage. Doesnt seem to care less about your unemployment crisi.

Hes not for the Palestinian cause and hes for keeping Troops in Iraq (no matter what he claims, as action speak louder than words).

Hes simply not Left. And I really dont see much of a difference between him and Trump aside from rhetoric and number of women who have accused them of sexual assault.

Oh and the other big difference is Trump isnt suffering from cognitive decline.

So dont talk down to me as if people have to choose the lesser or two evils or it means they are simply dumb.

Bernie and Biden are completely different. And Bernies supporters are smart enough not to fall for Trump 2.0 as the lesser of 2 evils nonsense.

Yeah, so smart they do not know the difference between universal coverage with a public option and single-payer as evident by your post.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Oh and its not Universal Coverage. His aim is to cover 97%. Which means 10million still wont have access. And thats his AIM.

And as long as healthcare is linked to employment and you have soaring levels of unemployment, your healthcare options are pretty piss poor under either man.

A public option is not linked to employment, genius.

A month ago or so I was pretty sure Trump had a very good chance to win, but with the economy the way it's going I think it might be hard for Trump to overcome it, despite the terribleness of the Democratic candidate.

If Biden could get a universal coverage with a public option of course that would be a big improvement for the United States healthcare situation. I think it is unlikely he will achieve it, and furthermore I believe it will be much less robust and more easy to tear down or corrupt for the Republicans once they are back in office (as they have done with the good aspects of the Affordable Care Act)

Originally posted by Artol
I personally think Bernie supporters are better off if Biden wins. But I would not go so far to say they should (or even have to) support Biden or vote for him.

If their primary concern is Americans with no health care coverage, and the choice is between the current system of employer-provided health insurance in which 9% of Americans have no coverage under Trump; and universal coverage with a public option in which less than 3% may have no coverage under Biden; they would have to be a complete retards to de facto choose Trump, because they could not get a mythical single-payer under Bernie.

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
If their primary concern is Americans with no health care coverage, and the choice is between the current system of employer-provided health insurance in which 9% of Americans have no coverage under Trump; and universal coverage with a public option in which less than 3% may have no coverage under Biden; they would have to be a complete retards to de facto choose Trump, because they could not get a mythical single-payer under Bernie.

In this framing I would agree. There's little chance that Trump will do anything but make the health care situation worse, despite at times giving lip service to some vague good ideas.

I don't think that is the primary or an overriding concern for most voters, it certainly doesn't seem like the main rallying cry for Biden either.

Originally posted by Artol
In this framing I would agree. There's little chance that Trump will do anything but make the health care situation worse, despite at times giving lip service to some vague good ideas.

I don't think that is the primary or an overriding concern for most voters, it certainly doesn't seem like the main rallying cry for Biden either.

But if you are a Sanders supporter, and Medicare for All is your rallying cry, and you have the choice of 97% of what you want under Biden and 0% of what you want under Trump, and you choose neither or Trump, because you cannot get 100% under Sanders, then you are a complete idiot.

They are going to be forced to live under one of those two options no matter what, so abstaining, voting third party, or voting Trump ensures they do not get anything close to what they say they want.

They think they are "sticking it to the corporate, establishment, neoliberal Dems," but they are just ****ing themselves, because those "corporate, establishment, neoliberal Dems" already weathered four years of Trump, and can easily do it again, but can they?

They are the ones crying about how they will literally die without Medicare for All.

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
Yeah, so smart they do not know the difference between universal coverage with a public option and single-payer as evident by your post.

Because Medicare for all is the only reason difference I noted between Biden and Bernie right? But anyone who says he would reject Medicare for all even if it got through Congress and was only left down to him is a complete A-HOLE (for those who believe in it) and you would frankly have to be naeive as Fuk to beleive any promises he gives on the subject.

To add more differences, Biden wants to escalate tensions with North Korea and blame China for the virus alongside Trump.

But Yeah you are correct, you should choose the guy whose likely to have raped less women. Bravo for your morals and sense of democracy. But hey Keep forcing people to vote Biden or accuse them of being dumb and without morals, if that makes you feel better.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Because Medicare for all is the only reason difference I noted between Biden and Bernie right? But anyone who says he would reject Medicare for all even if it got through Congress and was only left down to him is a complete A-HOLE (for those who believe in it) and you would frankly have to be naeive as Fuk to beleive any promises he gives on the subject.

To add more differences, Biden wants to escalate tensions with North Korea and blame China for the virus alongside Trump.

But Yeah you are correct, you should choose the guy whose likely to have raped less women. Bravo for your morals and sense of democracy. But hey Keep forcing people to vote Biden or accuse them of being dumb and without morals, if that makes you feel better.

Biden said he would not sign a Medicare for All bill that was unfunded. But do not let facts get in the way of your sour grapes masquerading as righteous indignation.

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
Biden said he would not sign a Medicare for All bill that was unfunded. But do not let facts get in the way of your sour grapes masquerading as righteous indignation.

Wow. It's Adam_POE!

Originally posted by BackFire
There may not be debates at all this year though because of Covid.

Plus a big thing working against Trump this time is that he's no longer, by any logical metric, an underdog this time. He's the presumptive winner. I think a lot of people voted for Trump thinking he had no chance just because they wanted to vote for an underdog. I know several people who did this, voted for Trump not because they actually wanted him to win but because they thought he had no shot at all and didn't really want to vote for Clinton, and then when he won they regretted doing that.

His advantage even in that case is Biden's longevity perhaps? Though I suspect this election might proceed under more typical incumbent-at-play terms.

I think people in general are underestimating biden's chances of winning.