Originally posted by Robtard
^This is a lie. I've been banned once long ago and it wasn't for ranting.
This is a lie, you been banned three times. One for for ranting.
Originally posted by Robtard
^This is a lie. I've been banned once long ago and it wasn't for ranting.
This is a lie, you been banned three times. One for for ranting.
So, I read this article that said that Trump, if re-elected, would cut payroll tax, which would effectively gut medicare and social security. My questions, as I have people in America I care about:
-How likely is this to actually happen?
-Does cutting payroll tax effectively **** everyone over?
-If so, is there some sort of mystical "better version" that will replace it and make it all better?
I appreciate anyone willing to clear this up for me.
Originally posted by -Pr-
So, I read this article that said that Trump, if re-elected, would cut payroll tax, which would effectively gut medicare and social security. My questions, as I have people in America I care about:-How likely is this to actually happen?
-Does cutting payroll tax effectively **** everyone over?
-If so, is there some sort of mystical "better version" that will replace it and make it all better?I appreciate anyone willing to clear this up for me.
Great question and it's especially a good question to ask since you're from Ireland (and not having to deal with our bullshit US tax system).
Like all taxes collected, there is not a straight tube where actual physical dollars get sent, straight to a US Department where only that money sent through that tube can be spent by that Department. I know that description sounds ridiculous so let me try a different way.
A better way to describe this is: the people saying that cutting the payroll tax will somehow defund medicare and medicaid are absolute idiots. Like any budget, revenues minus expenditures is how it all works. Unless there is an explicit law that says "any taxes collected for x must all be spent on y", it will never work the way they are describing. They are just fear-mongering with anything related to Trump because they are pieces of shit babies trying to ruin a tax break for the work class Americans BECAUSE they don't want Trump to get a win like this.
They like to talk about how Republicans only care about big businesses and corporations. So Trump offers a tax break that is -7.65% that almost directly helps give the work class (middle class and lower) a tax cut. What do the Democrats do? The immediately try and lie to the American people by claiming a tax break will magically defund a very specific portion of the US Government when that's never how any tax collection has ever worked.
It's just more bullshit partisan politics. This is why I hate the Democrats so much.
Republicans: Xenophobic, racist, sexist, corportists.
Democrats: Everything the Republicans are but functionally more racist and pretend they are none of the things the Republicans are.
Originally posted by dadudemonloving the little bit of gaslighting at the bottom from Ddm here. Funny stuff.
Great question and it's especially a good question to ask since you're from Ireland (and not having to deal with our bullshit US tax system).Like all taxes collected, there is not a straight tube where actual physical dollars get sent, straight to a US Department where only that money sent through that tube can be spent by that Department. I know that description sounds ridiculous so let me try a different way.
A better way to describe this is: the people saying that cutting the payroll tax will somehow defund medicare and medicaid are absolute idiots. Like any budget, revenues minus expenditures is how it all works. Unless there is an explicit law that says "any taxes collected for x must all be spent on y", it will never work the way they are describing. They are just fear-mongering with anything related to Trump because they are pieces of shit babies trying to ruin a tax break for the work class Americans BECAUSE they don't want Trump to get a win like this.
They like to talk about how Republicans only care about big businesses and corporations. So Trump offers a tax break that is -7.65% that almost directly helps give the work class (middle class and lower) a tax cut. What do the Democrats do? The immediately try and lie to the American people by claiming a tax break will magically defund a very specific portion of the US Government when that's never how any tax collection has ever worked.
It's just more bullshit partisan politics. This is why I hate the Democrats so much.
Republicans: Xenophobic, racist, sexist, corportists.
Democrats: Everything the Republicans are but functionally more racist and pretend they are none of the things the Republicans are.
Originally posted by Old Man Whirly!
loving the little bit of gaslighting at the bottom from Ddm here. Funny stuff.
The entire post is gaslighting. Those entitlements are funded by the payroll tax. If you eliminate the payroll tax, you eliminate the funding source for those entitlements. It is a way to defacto end Medicare and Social Security without having to pass a bill to do so. It is a way for Republicans and "left-leaning centrists" like dadudemon to strip Boomers of their entitlements under the guise that they are getting a "working class tax cut." The government will stop withholding payroll taxes from them, and they will see an immediate increase in their net income, and think its great. They will not see the consequences of it until the go to retire, and Medicare and Social Security are insolvent, and the entitlements they relied on are no longer available to them. By then, it will be too late, because the GOP already traded their long-term futures for their short-term votes. It is a desperate strategy to hold on to power now.
Originally posted by Adam_PoE
The entire post is gaslighting. Those entitlements are funded by the payroll tax. If you eliminate the payroll tax, you eliminate the funding source for those entitlements. It is a way to defacto end Medicare and Social Security without having to pass a bill to do so. It is a way for Republicans and "left-leaning centrists" like dadudemon to strip Boomers of their entitlements under the guise that they are getting a "working class tax cut." The government will stop withholding payroll taxes from them, and they will see an immediate increase in their net income, and think its great. They will not see the consequences of it until the go to retire, and Medicare and Social Security are insolvent, and the entitlements they relied on are no longer available to them. By then, it will be too late, because the GOP already traded their long-term futures for their short-term votes. It is a desperate strategy to hold on to power now.
It's like a bait-and-switch. Republicans are evil bastards with this ploy, hopefully enough people do a little bit of research before voting and vote while informed over this as I feel the majority of people will see the clear downside, while the minority will happily trade an extra dollar today for a clear risk down the road.
Originally posted by Robtard
It's like a bait-and-switch. Republicans are evil bastards with this ploy, hopefully enough people do a little bit of research before voting and vote while informed over this as I feel the majority of people will see the clear downside, while the minority will happily trade an extra dollar today for a clear risk down the road.
Unfortunately, the people who will be the most adversely affected by this, are the least informed of the electorate. Fox News and right-wing media will tell them that Trump and Republicans want to put more money in their paychecks by eliminating that dastardly payroll tax, and damn it, they are taxed enough already! They will champion it as some huge win, and they will not feel the effects of it until years down the road, long after they can connect it to their vote. And Fox News, right-wing media, and Republicans will be there to obfuscate, and blame it on a Democratic administration raiding the entitlement funds to pay for abortions, gay marriages, and gender confirmation surgery for transgenders.
Originally posted by dadudemon
Great question and it's especially a good question to ask since you're from Ireland (and not having to deal with our bullshit US tax system).Like all taxes collected, there is not a straight tube where actual physical dollars get sent, straight to a US Department where only that money sent through that tube can be spent by that Department. I know that description sounds ridiculous so let me try a different way.
A better way to describe this is: the people saying that cutting the payroll tax will somehow defund medicare and medicaid are absolute idiots. Like any budget, revenues minus expenditures is how it all works. Unless there is an explicit law that says "any taxes collected for x must all be spent on y", it will never work the way they are describing. They are just fear-mongering with anything related to Trump because they are pieces of shit babies trying to ruin a tax break for the work class Americans BECAUSE they don't want Trump to get a win like this.
They like to talk about how Republicans only care about big businesses and corporations. So Trump offers a tax break that is -7.65% that almost directly helps give the work class (middle class and lower) a tax cut. What do the Democrats do? The immediately try and lie to the American people by claiming a tax break will magically defund a very specific portion of the US Government when that's never how any tax collection has ever worked.
It's just more bullshit partisan politics. This is why I hate the Democrats so much.
Republicans: Xenophobic, racist, sexist, corportists.
Democrats: Everything the Republicans are but functionally more racist and pretend they are none of the things the Republicans are.
Bingo
Originally posted by Robtard
It's like a bait-and-switch. Republicans are evil bastards with this ploy, hopefully enough people do a little bit of research before voting and vote while informed over this as I feel the majority of people will see the clear downside, while the minority will happily trade an extra dollar today for a clear risk down the road.
I wonder how many ppl are in it so bad that they feel like they have to take a small win today because of their situations. If ppl don't feel like they have a tomorrow they certainly don't care about 10-20-30 years from now. 🙁
Originally posted by snowdragon
I wonder how many ppl are in it so bad that they feel like they have to take a small win today because of their situations. If ppl don't feel like they have a tomorrow they certainly don't care about 10-20-30 years from now. 🙁
While true with some, I believe most people except to live longer lives generally speaking.
Originally posted by Adam_PoE
The entire post is gaslighting. Those entitlements are funded by the payroll tax. If you eliminate the payroll tax, you eliminate the funding source for those entitlements. It is a way to defacto end Medicare and Social Security without having to pass a bill to do so. It is a way for Republicans and "left-leaning centrists" like dadudemon to strip Boomers of their entitlements under the guise that they are getting a "working class tax cut." The government will stop withholding payroll taxes from them, and they will see an immediate increase in their net income, and think its great. They will not see the consequences of it until the go to retire, and Medicare and Social Security are insolvent, and the entitlements they relied on are no longer available to them. By then, it will be too late, because the GOP already traded their long-term futures for their short-term votes. It is a desperate strategy to hold on to power now.
This is complete and utter bullshit. That's simply not how tax revenues and payments work.
You really believe there is a magical tube with physical money being piped to these brick and mortar departments and it is impossible to move the money to other departments once the magical tubes deliver the money?
It takes such a huge suspension of disbelief to actually buy this bullshit narrative you're painting that you have to be clinically mentally disabled.
If you're correct, quote the exact budgetary or legal statutes that state that the tax revenues collected must be compartmentalized and spent on specific departments with no wiggle room.
Everyone: quote my post and tell me if you do or do not believe in this magical money tube for how the US Government is funded with tax revenues.
Originally posted by -Pr-
Ok, lot to digest here, so I'll ask a follow-on question that I think would have less arguable answer: What tangible benefits come with cutting the payroll tax?
"Put simply, payroll taxes are taxes paid on the wages and salaries of employees. These taxes are used to finance social insurance programs, such as Social Security and Medicare." -Snip
https://taxfoundation.org/what-are-payroll-taxes-and-who-pays-them/
Originally posted by Robtard
"Put simply, payroll taxes are taxes paid on the wages and salaries of employees. These taxes are used to finance social insurance programs, such as Social Security and Medicare." -Sniphttps://taxfoundation.org/what-are-payroll-taxes-and-who-pays-them/
Sorry. I meant for the government. I mean, people will still be expected to manually file their taxes (which I'm glad we don't do here), right? Americans will still be paying tax, so the government is supposed to get the money either way.
What do those in power get out of it?
Originally posted by -Pr-
Sorry. I meant for the government. I mean, people will still be expected to manually file their taxes (which I'm glad we don't do here), right? Americans will still be paying tax, so the government is supposed to get the money either way.What do those in power get out of it?
No. If the government eliminates the payroll tax, Americans will not be paying it when the file their taxes, or at any other time for that matter. It just goes away.
And since the payroll tax will no longer be automatically withheld from their paychecks (because it has been eliminated), people will see a net increase in their pay (in the amount that used to be withheld for payroll taxes).
Republicans can then claim they gave people a "tax cut," which is technically true, to effectively buy their votes in exchange for a modest increase in take-home pay.
All without acknowledging that the tax they cut funds their entitlement benefits, and that by cutting it, they also effectively eliminated their benefits in the process.
They will see the increase in their take-home pay immediately, but they will not see that their benefits are gone until they go to claim them. So they are effectively trading their long-term security for a short-term reward without realizing it.
Originally posted by Adam_PoE
No. If the government eliminates the payroll tax, Americans will not be paying it when the file their taxes, or at any other time for that matter. It just goes away.And since the payroll tax will no longer be automatically withheld from their paychecks (because it has been eliminated), people will see a net increase in their pay (in the amount that used to be withheld for payroll taxes).
Republicans can then claim they gave people a "tax cut," which is technically true, to effectively buy their votes in exchange for a modest increase in take-home pay.
PR, everything Adam_PoE says here, is true. Including the part about the Republicans gloating about their tax cuts (they will do it and already started).
Originally posted by Adam_PoE
All without acknowledging that the tax they cut funds their entitlement benefits, and that by cutting it, they also effectively eliminated their benefits in the process.
PR, what Adam_PoE says here, is definitely not true. That's not how the system works as I've explained. Tax revenues will simply decrease and the budget deficit will get larger. That's it. None of this fearmongering about losing medicare and medicaid that the Democrats are trying to do.
It's a giant load of shit to say they lose their medicare or medicaid (those two things are an expensive version of your Health Service system in Ireland).