2020 Presidential Election Discussion

Originally posted by Blakemore
As opposed to being ruled by wealthy land owners? Like it or not, Jackson's rise to power was a suffrage movement.

Your response does not function as rebuttal to my post but only provides an example of why I am right.

What part of slave ownership is within Lockean Natural Rights (it's not)? Even Jefferson admitted it was not within the natural rights belief system and slavery is actually an example of Majoritarianism.

Does that help you move that "political slider" a bit further away from "Pure Democracy"?

Originally posted by eThneoLgrRnae
In a republic, people have inalienable individual rights ( meaning they can never be legally taken away from them no matter how many people vote for them to be removed).

A true democracy is mob rule. It is one of the worst forms of government. In a republic, the individual has rights that protect him or her from the mob.

Here's a good, simple illustration of the two government types in their most basic forms:

Imagine you live in the time period of the Old West but instead of a republic, it is a democracy. Someone accuses you of raping a woman. That person convinces a bunch of other people that you are guilty and they decide that you should be hung for your supposed crime. No one believes your claim that you are innocent. They hang you despite your screams that you did nothing wrong and no one voiced any objections or took up for you.

Now, imagine the same scenario but instead of it being a democracy it is a republic as it actually was historically. Now, when they try to hang you a sheriff happens to come along and say "you can't hang him, he has rights. He will stand trial instead and is presumed innocent until proven guilty beyond a shadow of a doubt."

People who praise true democracy so much are the same people who would say it's ok to violate someone's natural, inherent rights as as long as it's for the so-called "greater good"(those people tend to be socialist and commie slimeballs).

People who understand that we are actually a Republic though would say individual can't have his inalienable rights taken away no matter how many people vote for it to happen.

People who love true democracy tend to be collectivists. People who love a republican form of government prefer individualism over collectivist crap.

I would also like to point out when people talk about democracy they aren't talking about pure democracy where everyone votes on every issue. That idea went out the window real fast.

Most people talk about a representative democracy which we very much are.

Even if you got rid of the Electoral College people would still be able to vote for representation in the form of Congress. Also the rights of individual states allow for more focused representation for minorities.

The electoral college to me will always be flawed because it inherently gives more individual voting power to people based on where they are born.

For instance the power of my vote inherently changes depending on which state I live in.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Your response does not function as rebuttal to my post but only provides an example of why I am right.

What part of slave ownership is within Lockean Natural Rights (it's not)? Even Jefferson admitted it was not within the natural rights belief system and slavery is actually an example of Majoritarianism.

Does that help you move that "political slider" a bit further away from "Pure Democracy"?

Originally posted by Newjak
Yet the idea of how to treat slavery was still built into the constitution and other signers inherently were okay with slavery.

This means it constituted (lol, pun) as majoritarianism as well as a basic violation of Lockean Natural Rights, though. Thus making my point.

Keep in mind my argument is not "the Constitutional Democratic Republic that the US specifically built".

Other than slavery, which was a violation of Lockean Natural Rights and was readily admitted to be a violation by the Lockean framers of the constitution AND which has been corrected, any other rebuttals to my point?

Originally posted by Newjak
You're being awfully generous to the the Old West form of justice lol. Least we not talk about how inalienable rights have been ignored so many times in this country's history.

I would also like to point out when people talk about democracy they aren't talking about pure democracy where everyone votes on every issue. That idea went out the window real fast.

Most people talk about a representative democracy which we very much are.

Even if you got rid of the Electoral College people would still be able to vote for representation in the form of Congress. Also the rights of individual states allow for more focused representation for minorities.

The electoral college to me will always be flawed because it inherently gives more individual voting power to people based on where they are born.

For instance the power of my vote inherently changes depending on which state I live in.

I was just using the Old West as a theoretical example. If it makes ya feel better, substitute the Old West for our current time in my scenario. It wouldn't really change anything.

No, we are a Constitutional Republic. Look in the Constitution article4 section 4. We are not a democracy. I'm sorry you've been brainwashed into believing that nonsense. The word 'democracy' is mentioned nowhere in any of our founding documents. You can look up plenty of quotes by our founding fathers where they were bashing democracy. They were no fan of it, believe me which is why they gave us a Republic instead which is a much superior government type.

Ever hear of a little song called "Battle Hymn of the Republic?" If not, maybe you should check it out sometime.

Also, learn The Pledge of Allegiance, ffs lol. No mention of the word "democracy" in there, either.

Democracy sucks, dude. Period.

Republic >>>> democracy. 👆

The United States is most certainly a Constitutional REPUBLIC. 👆

Originally posted by dadudemon
This means it constituted (lol, pun) as majoritarianism as well as a basic violation of Lockean Natural Rights, though. Thus making my point.

Keep in mind my argument is not "the Constitutional Democratic Republic that the US specifically built".

Other than slavery, which was a violation of Lockean Natural Rights and was readily admitted to be a violation by the Lockean framers of the constitution AND which has been corrected, any other rebuttals to my point?

Originally posted by eThneoLgrRnae
I was just using the Old West as an example. If it makes ya feel better, substitute the Old West for our current time in my example. It wouldn't really change anything.

No, we are a Constitutional Republic. Look in the Constitution article4 section 4. We are not a democracy. I'm sorry you've been brainwashed into believing that nonsense. The word democracy is mentioned nowhere in any of our founding documents. You can look up plenty of quotes by our founding fathers where they were bashing democracy. They were no fan of it, believe me.

Ever hear of a little song called "Battle Hymn of the Republic?" If not, maybe you should check it out sometime.

Also, learn The Pledge of Allegiance, ffs lol. No mention of the word "democracy" in there, either.

Democracy sucks, dude. Period.

Republic >>>> democracy. 👆

The United States is most certainly a Constitutional REPUBLIC. 👆

Like you seriously believe this?

Originally posted by dadudemon
This means it constituted (lol, pun) as majoritarianism as well as a basic violation of Lockean Natural Rights, though. Thus making my point.

Keep in mind my argument is not "the Constitutional Democratic Republic that the US specifically built".

Other than slavery, which was a violation of Lockean Natural Rights and was readily admitted to be a violation by the Lockean framers of the constitution AND which has been corrected, any other rebuttals to my point?

I'm just pointing out that there exists no modern government that is completely free from what you call majoritarianism.

Originally posted by Blakemore
You were arguing against democracy. It's quite clear American history, as many other countries have been fighting for more democracy.

That may be true but that is most certainly not what our country was originally built as or the intention of our founders. They knew that democracies were terrible forms of government. And please don't say something stupid like "duh, hur dur, but they were slaveowners her derp!" as if that actually invalidates anything. It doesn't.

Originally posted by eThneoLgrRnae
That may be true but that is most certainly not what our country was originally built as or the intention of our founders. They knew that democracies were terrible forms of government. And please don't say something stupid like "duh, hur dur, but they were slaveowners her derp!" as if that actually invalidates anything. It doesn't.

Originally posted by eThneoLgrRnae
That may be true but that is most certainly not what our country was originally built as or the intention of our founders. They knew that democracies were terrible forms of government. And please don't say something stupid like "duh, hur dur, but they were slaveowners her derp!" as if that actually invalidates anything. It doesn't.

Speaking of the founding fathers, did you know Thomas Paine was incredibly critical of Christianity and wrote it was a plagiarised version of the Egyptian religion? That's not really relevant, just wanted to make you look even more foolish.

In a republic, individual rights/liberties are God-given or (for those who're atheists) natural rights. Government is merely supposed to protect those rights, not grant them. Individual rights are inherent and cannot ever be voted away.

In a democracy, government grants and takes away rights. People can vote to have the government take away people's rights if a majority votes for it.

Again, democracies suck ass.

Originally posted by eThneoLgrRnae
In a republic, individual rights/liberties are God-given or (for those who're atheists) natural rights. Government is merely supposed to protect those rights, not grant them. Individual rights are inherent and cannot ever be voted away.

In a democracy, government grants and takes away rights. People can vote to have the government take away people's rights if a majority votes for it.

Again, democracies suck ass.

Originally posted by Surtur
Biden and Sanders are white males, so they won't get it. Honestly I think it will go to Harris.

I thought it was going to be Harris too.

Did you think it was strictly due to racism and sexism though?

I though either Biden or Harris tbh.

And i don't think Harris lost due to sexism and/or racism.

It's just Biden is more well known and liked.

Originally posted by Robtard
Did you think it was strictly due to racism and sexism though?

No. Just sexism.

If biden wins you get a president Harris.

He's not going to last a full term.

I think it might have been lack of experience more than anything. Biden lost in '88 for similar reasons, but with Biden's experience, I'm sure Harris can learn from him to be a good VP and Pres if it comes to be.